16- JJ with crappy board

[badkins6]

This is probably really bad so any comments would help. My main question though does anyone bet the turn? And it's like the 3rd hand so no reads.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1400)
UTG+1 (t1400)
MP1 (t1460)
MP2 (t1740)
Hero (t1490)
CO (t1560)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is in MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, SB calls t50, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t140) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t140) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (t140) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets t80</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>

[Jbrochu]

Most of the time heads up I would bet this flop. Since you didn't, I don't mind checking behind on the turn. I would call the river.

[matvei2006]

I would bet this flop. You took control of the hand preflop and the paired board makes it less unlikely he connected. If you are check raised on the flop you should muck. Jacks always pose problems for me as well. I would call the river for a small price to see what he had.

[Hercules]

The river card is pretty much one of the worse cards you could see. you don`t even beat Q-high any more. So calling the river is not a good idea imo.

I wouldn`t bet the turn, because a king will never fold and i don`t see many worse hands calling. The other advantage of checking the turn is that you can induce him to bluff any river.
Most of the time i would call a non-heart undercard river, unless i have a read which tells me else.

I would play it same like you did. I don`t see much value in cbetting. If you`re ahead, Villain is basically drawing to 2-3 outs, so there`s not much to loose.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
The river card is pretty much one of the worse cards you could see. you don`t even beat Q-high any more. So calling the river is not a good idea imo.


[/ QUOTE ]

It really is a terrible card but you only need to be ahead roughly 30% of the time to breakeven.

The way the hand has played out if I'm the SB I'm betting a significant amount of the time especially if it's unlikely I can win a showdown.

[Hercules]

Good argument Jbrochu, but for this to work
a) your opponent has to bet like pretty much every time, to make it significant +Ev. If he`d only bluff 50% of the time its very -EV.
b) Villain might think that his bet on the river with Q-high is a bluff, although its a thin valuebet (assuming there`s a little chance someone has the flush)

Its hard to calculate the numbers, but the K of hearts just turned so many bluffing hands into winners (he would maybe bet with a busted FD and QJ kind of hand on any other river).

[kozip]

there is no way, how i would not c-bet that flop (its perfect for a c-bet. high cards and paired!) and i would never call that river bet, since the SB called my raise from mp3 and shoud have a better kicker than my jack.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
Good argument Jbrochu, but for this to work
a) your opponent has to bet like pretty much every time, to make it significant +Ev. If he`d only bluff 50% of the time its very -EV.
b) Villain might think that his bet on the river with Q-high is a bluff, although its a thin valuebet (assuming there`s a little chance someone has the flush)

Its hard to calculate the numbers, but the K of hearts just turned so many bluffing hands into winners (he would maybe bet with a busted FD and QJ kind of hand on any other river).

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's value betting 60% of the time, bluffing accidently with the best hand 10% of the time, and bluffing with the worst hand only 30% of the time it's still profitable for us to call.

.7(-t80) + .3(t220) = t10


I don't believe folding is terrible or even bad here. However, when you play hands weak in order to control the pot size you often have to be prepared to call small bets on the river.

I'm not saying calling is absolutely correct here but I know I would call in this spot often.

[eurythmech]

River card is not terrible at all. Kings already beat us, king puts no straight on the board, and exactly what tells us villain has a flush.

I think the flop cbet is very very standard.
Pretty much give up if that won't take it down too.

As played, check turn, call river.

[DevinLake]

I play the hand exactly like you, except I call the river.