How do you know when to check behind on the turn?

00Snitch · #1 02-19-2007, 06:48 AM

reasons for betting (the turn):

villan could hold lots of drawing hands (diamonds, gutshots) on the flop.

reason for checking:
villan slow playing big hand. Like AQ or a set.

how do we decide which is more likely?

ive got NFI. i get concerned when i show PF aggression, the flop comes scary looking (for villan) and he check/calls. he knows i have a hand and that there is a good chance i connected with that flop and he's not scared.

my problem is, because the board is also co-ordinated, i really dont want villan to have a free card.

maybe this is a bad bet for the reasons i listed, also because i cant call a raise.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: 5.75BB

winkydinky85 · #2 02-19-2007, 06:56 AM

Checking behind on the turn here is fine. Bet/calling is way worse than Bet/Folding or just checking. I think checking behind and reevaluating river is better than just firing another bullet.

Gib · #3 02-19-2007, 07:02 AM

I would prefer to b/f here then check.

OziBattler · #4 02-19-2007, 07:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would prefer to b/f here then check.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. dont want to give free card and I think he folds enough for this to be profitable. I dont think our JJ is good often enough when we check and have to call a river bet, unless of course we have a read that tells us otherwise.....

i just think that putting that one last bet in on the turn has better EV than saving it for the inevitable river donk.

calidris · #5 02-19-2007, 07:08 AM

b/f turn or check behind and call river costs the same amount and with b/f he can't draw profitably to a SD so I say you played it fine.

00Snitch · #6 02-19-2007, 07:11 AM

has anyone done a milestone post on when to and when not to bet the turn?

OziBattler · #7 02-19-2007, 07:13 AM

jrz did a great post on firing the second bullet but concerned AK not JJ but its still relevant. it is in digest...not the current one but the one before....***runs off to find it***

edit: in current digest...here it is .. and you posted in it so you have read it already. oh well, I tried.

00Snitch · #8 02-19-2007, 07:20 AM

yes, i really like that post. two things i have been trying to work on (however, with little sucess i think [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) are when to fire 2nd barrel (with OCs) and when to check behind on the turn with a made hand.

Gib · #9 02-19-2007, 07:27 AM

Here's a post I made in MHSH, the biggest mistake I made on this hand was betting the turn, it opens up many chances for the SB to c/r me, also obviously I cannot fold here either, so this is a spot where a check would of been the best play.

My best option was to check the turn & call river UI. By doing this I could also be able to induce a bluff from SB if he hasn't got me beat, but if behind I lose the min.

In your hand Snitch it is a perfect spot to b/f as any hand that c/r's you has you beat & you haven't got the odds to call a raise, but in turn you don't allow him a free card if he's drawing.

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

calidris · #10 02-19-2007, 07:33 AM

The difference in this hand is that you do have an OESD here which makes calling the c/r worth while.