Live 15/30 AJo line check + a couple small plugs...

[Garland]

Location: Artichoke Joes in San Bruno, CA
Stakes: $15/$30 2 chip small blind, 5 bet cap.
Players: Loose aggressive. 9-handed. Just moved to main game, but been around the few orbits to know it's a decent game.

Principal Players:

EMP - Loose aggressive middle aged woman--must moved to the main game like me a couple of orbits ago. She's pretty straight forward 90% of the time, but has bluffed twice in the few hours I played with her. She will show down cards for free and tell people when they are beat quite often losing a lot of value.

MP - I'm here as a TAG, but probably not long enough to establish too much of an image as I've been must-moved not too long ago.

CO - Young aggressive player. I only know enough about this player that he played Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] by raising 4 limpers preflop from SB and betting the flop getting two callers, check-calling the turn and betting the river on the board: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x:club, blank turn, x:club.

Preflop action: (1.5 small bets) EMP limps, I'm next to act with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and raise, CO calls, all folds to EMP and she calls.

Flop action: (7.5 small bets, 3 players): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] EMP checks, I bet, CO raises, EMP cold-calls, I think and call...waiting for a safe turn.

Turn action: (6.75 big bets, 3 players): 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. EMP checks, I bet, CO raises again, EMP cold-calls 2, I think...and call.

River action; (12.75 big bets, 3 players): 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] EMP checks, I check with the intent of calling CO's bet.

How did I do? All comments appreciated. Results forthcoming.

Garland

Plug 1:
Battle Of The Bay V--2+2 Bay area home game February 24th

Plug 2: I'll be in LA to play some limit and a lot of no-limit next week, so watch out you Commercers.

[alphanumerics]

personally, i like it.

[7ontheline]

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personally, i like it.

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Me too.

[jfk]

Looks reasonable enough though the river may have bailed you out.

The one play with which I'd not agree is preflop. My results have improved markedly once I learned to stop raising with AJo in that game. The limping range is pretty wide with so many of those players that a) AJ may not be ahead and b) you'll have to hit the flop to continue. I'm no longer as fond of pressing small preflop edges in this game when so many will come along.

Good luck in LA.

[Garland]

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Looks reasonable enough though the river may have bailed you out.

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There is only one specific case where the river bailed me out, and it's if someone had 98.

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My results have improved markedly once I learned to stop raising with AJo in that game.

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I gotta disagree with you there 100%. Isolating a loose-aggressive and eliminating players in front and the blinds should be paramount in this hand. Flat calling here is way too weak. If there are more limpers, I would tend to agree with over-limping AJ. Only one limper, raising is automatic.

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I'm no longer as fond of pressing small preflop edges in this game when so many will come along.

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I'm taking my edges wherever I can get them.

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Good luck in LA.

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Thanks. See you next Saturday.

Garland

[CheckRaiseFo]

Did you not 3-bet on the flop because you weren't sure if you were behind? If so, then why donk on 4th st?

The way you played this hand seems weird to me, and I think it is because your play isn't really consistent with any specific (or general) read; like you didn't put the CO on anything. Either 3-bet the flop and lead because you feel ahead, or call the flop and check because you fear the straight or 2-pair. I personally think the 3-bet and lead play helps you define where you are a little better. If CO raises the turn then you can fold (but that only saves .5 bets and costs you a showdown).

But I am really curious about what others have to say... I know I have a lot to learn myself...

[private joker]

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The one play with which I'd not agree is preflop.

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Come on, really? AJ is a super-easy raise after 1 limper, especially given the read OP provided. If you're not comfortable raising AJ in that spot, are you suggesting a limp? Ugh. Why encourage more limpers with a hand that doesn't play as well multiway?

[imashyboi]

I would have taken the 3-bet flop instead of the smooth call. The flop is definitely dangerous but I think you have to play this hand aggressively since he could be playing his Js with a draw the same way. Personally, I think the guy has a something like QJ or T9. If he's good he won't play 98 in the CO and T9 would be somewhat out of his range as well. I'll say something like QJs would be the most ideal hand for him, that or a mid pair for a set.

The board pairing on the river definitely helped your hand. If a flush or a Q/T came out I wouldn't really know what to do.

[James.]

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Did you not 3-bet on the flop because you weren't sure if you were behind? If so, then why donk on 4th st?

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this is a pretty common line on such a drawy board, especially in a multiway pot after all that action.

[jfk]

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Come on, really? AJ is a super-easy raise after 1 limper, especially given the read OP provided. If you're not comfortable raising AJ in that spot, are you suggesting a limp? Ugh. Why encourage more limpers with a hand that doesn't play as well multiway?

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Yes, really. These games can be cartoonishly loose and the 2/3 blind structure means that the SB is coming very often as is the big blind.

To win this hand I'm going to need to hit the flop. If I raise preflop very few are going to bet into me so I can't use someone else's bet to limit the field when I get a good flop like this. That then forces me to drag along a field which is nearly as big to the turn where one of these people will be extremely tempted to make a move. Three to the flop is an aberration. If the game is playing similarly tight, then your (pj's) reasons for raising are fine. In general, in this game many of these players see a playable hand and go with it. The preflop raise from a tight player isn't all that likely to keep others out of the pot.

Moreover, when the flop misses me, as it will two times out of three, I can then just move along, leaving just a small pot behind.

I used to automatically raise with AJo here, for the reasons you've given and with the thought that my standards were appreciably higher than the field's. I found that line of thought to be a slight mistake in these loose games. Your logic is sound, but the game conditions for in which to apply that logic aren't present.

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There is only one specific case where the river bailed me out, and it's if someone had 98.

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Good point and you're right. I slept on this one and woke up uncomfortable with my first, lazy thoughts. I tend to now think that putting more money in on the flop would've been a preferable line. As it played out, I would not have faulted you for folding the turn. The chance that you're behind combined with the redraws afforded the overcaller means I'd at least consider a turn fold. He could be playing JT this way but it could well be a set. Being that EMP appears to be on a spade draw, I'd discount the spade possibility with the CO.

When you (Garland) stopped to think, what were your turn thoughts?