5CD Draw: Pat Flush - How much action do you give?

[andyblub]

UTG is a solid player and raised into my pat flush. Gets called and is raised by UTG. I call (Right decision? I definitely put him on a pat hand now as well).

He starts the action after the draw and I simply call. What do you think?

Limit 5 Card Draw ($0.50/$1) (converter)

SB ($17.85), Seat 2
BB ($28.90), Seat 3
UTG ($19.90), Seat 4
Hero ($11.45), Seat 5
CO ($19.10), Seat 6
Button ($60.80), Seat 1

SB posts $0.25. BB posts $0.50.

Hero is MP with [4s 8s As Ts 3s]

Round 1: (1.50 SB)

<font color="red">UTG raises. </font><font color="red">Hero raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="green">SB calls. </font><font color="#666666">BB folds. </font><font color="red">UTG raises. </font>Betting is capped. <font color="green">Hero calls. </font><font color="green">SB calls. </font>
SB takes 1. UTG stands pat. Hero stands pat.

Hero has [4s 8s As Ts 3s]

Round 2: (6.50 BB)

<font color="green">SB checks. </font><font color="red">UTG bets. </font><font color="green">Hero calls. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font>

Pot: (8.50 BB - $8.50)

[List]

This is only slightly bad at worst. He's unlikely to bet a straight here, or even a weak flush. That said, I have trouble believing he's that competent playing .5/1 limit. Calling is fine, especially given that you won't fold to a three bet.

[andyblub]

My table image was very tight, I folded most hands (I was dealt garbage only for about 20 minutes) because I had notes on most players who I know only raise at least a decent pair.

I was quite sure UTG didn't put me on a bluff. After the draw and both of us standing pat my thinking was:

-UTG wouldn't bet a straight here, he might be beat and fold to a reraise.
-UTG probably would check-raise a full house as I probably bet into him and put him on a straight for not betting.

So I put him on a flush and called because I had an Ace high flush.

My thinking was wrong, he showed Kings full.
It's one of those times when I'm really glad I played at a fixed limit table...

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
-UTG probably would check-raise a full house as I probably bet into him and put him on a straight for not betting.


[/ QUOTE ]

Remember he doesn't know what you have. You're checking through straights and baby flushes but should pay off with them because the pot is huge. Meanwhile he can bet-threebet against another full.

There's virtually no case where a pat should checkraise another pat after a capped predraw round, especially one with a donator along for the ride.

[elitegimp]

Was I at that table? I dropped $20 in the game, steaming a little and drnka a lot (: Anyway, the hand sounds really familiar, but I couldn't find it in my hand history folder. (Username here = username at Stars)

edit: nevermind, the hand I was thinking of was a baby flush vs the wheel (both stood pat)

[andyblub]

[ QUOTE ]
There's virtually no case where a pat should checkraise another pat after a capped predraw round, especially one with a donator along for the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm not sure about this. I totally agree that it's useless with a Flush or a small full house but with Kings full UTG didn't have to be scared of too many hands so I think it was an option in this case. On the other hand, I don't know if I had raised him because as i said I didn't put him on a bluff anyway and he was unlikely to call with a straight.
So probably his decision was just right.

@elitegimp: I just checked the hand history and no, you were not in the game. But you see, those hands occur regularly enough to make you think you were actually in this hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[andyblub]

Heh Elitegimp, your edit beat me by a few minutes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Are you playing in the 5$ tourney in 15 minutes?

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
Heh Elitegimp, your edit beat me by a few minutes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Are you playing in the 5$ tourney in 15 minutes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I think I'm done with 5-draw forever. I was _really_ bad (: But good luck to you!

[TomTom]

I like to think of legit pat hands as being either straights, flushes, or boats. (Note 4 of a kind will always draw 1, and straight flushes are rare enough to ignore.)

Straights and are easy to play, you fold straights to stiff aggression, and you get aggressive with your boat (until you suspect your 22233 may be against a bigger boat).

The flush is the hard one to play as it is both strong and vulnerable. In this hand you’ve shown strength twice by betting strong and standing pat, and he still bets into you. You’re probably beat, but folding is too WT so make the crying call and hope he has a lesser flush or just a bluff.

[stripsqueez]

comparing straights, flushes, and fulls you need to consider that they occur with considerably different frequency

i value bet a king high straight into someone who has sat pat

i like call with this hand

stripsqueez - chickenhawk