$200NL B&M: KK

LordBaldrick · #1 02-17-2007, 03:15 AM

Hi guys

Basic question: does anyone lay down KK preflop when the stack sizes are still at 1 buy-in or less? Today I was playing in a casino and was dealt KK in the BB, the table had temporarily become 3-handed (a horse race was on), the Button Raised to $15, the SB Called (he was a maniac) and I reraised to $43. The Button now goes All-in for $196 (SB Folds) and I ........ eventually Call. I'm pissed off because I was as sure as I can be that he had AA but eventually fell back on my rule of thumb that for a single buy-in I get AI with KK. This is the second time in my last two live sessions that my KK has run into AA. Does anyone trust their reads so well that they can lay down KK in this situation?

cheers.

MyTurn2Raise · #2 02-17-2007, 03:34 AM

sometimes, I can lay KK down

but, I definitely cannot 3-handed unless I know the person is the rockiest rock

LordBaldrick · #3 02-17-2007, 03:37 AM

He wasn't a total Rock but his demeanour/banter made me as sure as I can be about his holding - just a bit cross at myself for not trusting my instincts, especially now that I think they are improving.

sandman-54 · #4 02-17-2007, 03:45 AM

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Does anyone trust their reads so well that they can lay down KK in this situation?

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If you're sure, then you're sure. Personally, the fact that it was a $1-2 blind short-handed game would take relevance over any read I could have in such a situation, although I don't have much experience.

I'm confused as to how much in chips you guys started the hand with.

GiantBuddha · #5 02-17-2007, 03:49 AM

I open folded KK in the small blind for $.05 in a four handed home game with very good friends. But that was a joke. I told him he was such a fish I didn't even have to play kings against him and I'd still take all his chips. We usually played $15/30 together though, so it wasn't exactly the most serious game.

As far as trusting your reads goes... it's very worthwhile to get an accurate assessment of how good your reads actually are. Take notes on close hands where you had "a feeling" or picked up a tell. In this spot, 3 handed, his hand range has to be larger than just AA. But people often get this aura of invincibility when they've got bullets. If you pick up on that, maybe you can lay down the kings. But routinely folding KK to all ins is a big leak IMO.

LordBaldrick · #6 02-17-2007, 03:50 AM

The Villain had about $195 and I had him covered. The Blinds were $2 and $3.

GiantBuddha · #7 02-17-2007, 04:01 AM

$43 sounds like a kinda small reraise. I'd probably make it $60 to $75 then push any flop (although in this case, clearly all the chips were going in preflop).

I think the button had $196 and OP had him covered. This is just one of those spots where almost everyone gets stacked, and if everyone gets stacked in this spot, then no one ever has an advantage from it. Sucks, but that's life. Or poker.

sandman-54 · #8 02-17-2007, 04:14 AM

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$43 sounds like a kinda small reraise. I'd probably make it $60 to $75 then push any flop (although in this case, clearly all the chips were going in preflop).

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Why?

GiantBuddha · #9 02-17-2007, 04:47 AM

Because I'm retarted? I don't know. Making it $43 straight just seems very exploitable to me. If he made it $43 more, then I retract my previous comment. You're putting in a little less than a quarter of your stack out of position in a spot where the button, if he just calls can still have a pretty wide range, calling with pairs for set value (although it's marginal) and putting you to an unpleasant decision when an ace flops. If you put in enough chips preflop, you may get him committed to the hand where he makes mistakes after the flop. That's all assuming he doesn't have aces and that if he does you're going to get stacked.

On the other hand... making it $43 looks a lot like you're begging for a call, so when he pushes over the top, you've given yourself some room and some reason to fold. So if that's your thought process and you make a pristine read (which apparently you did) then you should go with your gut and muck it.

I find the hands that stick with you the longest are the ones where you "knew" the right play but didn't have the courage of your convictions to make it.

sandman-54 · #10 02-17-2007, 01:04 PM

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Because I'm retarted? I don't know. Making it $43 straight just seems very exploitable to me. If he made it $43 more, then I retract my previous comment. You're putting in a little less than a quarter of your stack out of position in a spot where the button, if he just calls can still have a pretty wide range, calling with pairs for set value (although it's marginal) and putting you to an unpleasant decision when an ace flops. If you put in enough chips preflop, you may get him committed to the hand where he makes mistakes after the flop. That's all assuming he doesn't have aces and that if he does you're going to get stacked.

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No, I thought it was 43 more. My mistake. I agree with you. It did seem small, especially OOP with close to 200 behind. If it weren't for the maniac-type player, then raising to $43 as a way of playing it slow might be worth considering, shorthanded, since your opponents could be drawing thin.

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On the other hand... making it $43 looks a lot like you're begging for a call, so when he pushes over the top, you've given yourself some room and some reason to fold. So if that's your thought process and you make a pristine read (which apparently you did) then you should go with your gut and muck it.

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I've never reasoned that way, but that definitely makes sense. I think that if you felt that your opponent would bluff much less, then doing this could help keep you out of a lot of sticky situations. However, if he's already a habitual bluffer, then I'd keep the raise bigger and switch to call mode.

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I find the hands that stick with you the longest are the ones where you "knew" the right play but didn't have the courage of your convictions to make it.

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Super System? "Have the courage of your convictions!"