how have the games changed?

KRANTZ · #1 02-15-2007, 03:15 PM

the games have obviously gotten much tougher since Party bounced the US market a few months ago. this thread is for observations, both general and specific, and ideas for how to beat the new generation of online NL games. perhaps something will arise out of this kind of discussion. maybe we'll have to get used to lower winrates. but maybe not.

i'll start:

-now instead of table selecting for fish, i'll look for the worst reg or the reg who stacks off most easily to me

-each and every mistake counts way more than it used to

-it seems like the gap between 3/6 regs and 5/10 regs has been exacerbated

-25/50 is so high variance it just can't be profitable for all but the best

-i think limping and limp reraising could be an extremely effective strategy against textbook players who have deficiencies in hand reading and adjusting, but am unsure of how to approach building a strategy

ttttt · #2 02-15-2007, 03:23 PM

I don't understand why have the games have got tougher? Surely the US fish have just moved to other poker rooms, no?

Clayton · #3 02-15-2007, 03:24 PM

my 3/6 experience: the fish are no longer the huge donks (though they still exist), the fish are nowadays the tags that make critical errors consistently such as calling too much oop, do not vary their play, and stack off too easily

also, pr1nnyraid is gay

ty2472004 · #4 02-15-2007, 03:25 PM

obviously, 3-bets are so much more common. With that, 4-bet bluffs have become somewhat common and they were almost non-existant before. Honestly, my answer to the new aggresion has been to tighten up preflop. I went from a vpip of about 27 down to 22, but I'm much much more agressive with my 3-bets and 4-bets than I once was.

KRANTZ · #5 02-15-2007, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why have the games have got tougher? Surely the US fish have just moved to other poker rooms, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's difficult for them to get money online, so while ALL the fish haven't gone away, many of them have been deterred. it's just not so easy anymore to deposit 1k whenever you feel like donking around.

KRANTZ · #6 02-15-2007, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
obviously, 3-bets are so much more common. With that, 4-bet bluffs have become somewhat common and they were almost non-existant before. Honestly, my answer to the new aggresion has been to tighten up preflop. I went from a vpip of about 27 down to 22, but I'm much much more agressive with my 3-bets and 4-bets than I once was.

[/ QUOTE ]

-on this note, i've seen so many more AIs preflop in the past two months than ever before, with hands as bad as 77 or ATo not only 3betting light but happily calling 4bet pushes

AceCR9 · #7 02-15-2007, 03:38 PM

to me now the fish are the break even or 1ptbb/100 winners. like the players who beat 2/4 for a decent rate, but don't really win much at all at 3/6 for example.

Krantz- can you elaborate on why you feel only the best can be consitant winners at 25/50? I have some opinions(I agree somewhat) but I'm curious as to yours. thx

ty2472004 · #8 02-15-2007, 03:40 PM

I would be interested to see what the mean 3-bet hand is among lag regulars like yourself Krantz. It seems like I get 3-bet so [censored] much.

KRANTZ · #9 02-15-2007, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Krantz- can you elaborate on why you feel only the best can be consitant winners at 25/50? I have some opinions(I agree somewhat) but I'm curious as to yours. thx

[/ QUOTE ]

1- the fish are eaten up too quickly and there are fewer of them
2- the games are even more aggro than they used to be, with higher variance because of this
3-the player pool is very, very good in general

so you could definitely table select very well and make some money when you find a reg tilting or a fish taking a shot, but if you were playing it as your main game... i just don't think anyone other than the best players could be long-term winners with the player pool the way it is now. just my opinion

KRANTZ · #10 02-15-2007, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would be interested to see what the mean 3-bet hand is among lag regulars like yourself Krantz. It seems like I get 3-bet so [censored] much.

[/ QUOTE ]

for me it's more of a frequency thing. if i haven't been active i'll 3-bet whatever two cards i was dealt. sometimes when i have been active i'll just decide to go nuts and 3-bet 4 times in a row to try to tilt somebody.