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#11
02-12-2007, 10:05 PM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
[ QUOTE ]
I agree minbetting might suck. But do you really think check/shove extracts the most value? [/ QUOTE ] Why wait until you know you are behind to put it all in?? Seems to me that getting it all in when you are ahead is the idea...... 
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#12
02-12-2007, 10:19 PM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
Well... if he's got a bigger J the hand plays itself. So if I bet big, It seems like I'm playing the same I would against 2 or more villians where I don't want to let them draw to the flush for free. Now there is also the issue of the spade coming and scaring him off. But still do I really play this the same vs. one villian as 2 or more? What about if the flop was rainbow, you play it any differently?
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#13
02-12-2007, 10:25 PM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
Personally I like to bet out in this situation but with a decent size bet - one that says 'I hit the 3, I dont want a call'. Then if we get a raise we should be able to get all our 1600 chips in and get a call. Of course, by doing this, we'll lose a bet from the villain a lot of the time but it gives us a chance of doubling up.
This makes sure that the villain doesnt check behind and make a free flush and also blends in with the situations when we do bet out with the 3 at the same size bet. JMO
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#14
02-13-2007, 12:46 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
this hand is an absolute train wreck...
dont bet the flop... if you do at least make it so you have one bet left... to shove on the river... turn check is fine as played but flop is honestly v bad. river... what is your question... to shove or not? it better not be whether you should fold or not...
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#16
02-13-2007, 01:38 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
[ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate on why not betting the flop? You are saying go for a pot-comitting CR right? [/ QUOTE ] A lot of people auto-bet when you check to them. You don't need to worry about getting outdrawn and you don't need to build a pot. If he checks behind he is probably drawing dead or close to it so no big deal there. If you are going to bet the flop (don't suggest) then bet enough so that you can shove the turn. I don't see why you need to get tricky with just 8 BB. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#17
02-13-2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Can you elaborate on why not betting the flop? You are saying go for a pot-comitting CR right? [/ QUOTE ] A lot of people auto-bet when you check to them. You don't need to worry about getting outdrawn and you don't need to build a pot. If he checks behind he is probably drawing dead or close to it so no big deal there. If you are going to bet the flop (don't suggest) then bet enough so that you can shove the turn. I don't see why you need to get tricky with just 8 BB. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] what he said
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#18
02-13-2007, 01:44 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
[ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate on why not betting the flop? You are saying go for a pot-comitting CR right? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think a CR is the way to get the most value from this hand. I think that the way you played the flop is. Everybody is optimistic or suspicious that you're bluffing on the flop. I think that being consistent here is key. I'll bet that flop 100% of the time with a J, but that's because I am betting that flop 100% of the time without a J. This will invite the over-push bluff for times such as these. But that's just me and the head games I like to play. I also bet the turn. I don't like to give up the keys to the bus when I'm the one who took it out of the garage. I'd prefer a situation where I set the price on a scare card, where I am able to fold (or evaluate) on a raise rather than check and allow someone else to set the price that I have to play. The interesting thing with this hand is that with the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] you may very well still be drawing to a better flush in addition to your full house/quad outs so I definitley push the turn.
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#19
02-13-2007, 01:57 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
I guess that's kind of what I was thinking with the 200 bet. I wanted get a nibble but not yank so hard to let him off the hook. If had a lot of failure trying to induce unknowns at the 60s to bet. Calling stations are much more the norm.
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#20
02-13-2007, 02:53 AM
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Re: $60 - taint shavin\' good times
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Can you elaborate on why not betting the flop? You are saying go for a pot-comitting CR right? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think a CR is the way to get the most value from this hand. I think that the way you played the flop is. Everybody is optimistic or suspicious that you're bluffing on the flop. I think that being consistent here is key. I'll bet that flop 100% of the time with a J, but that's because I am betting that flop 100% of the time without a J. This will invite the over-push bluff for times such as these. But that's just me and the head games I like to play. I also bet the turn. I don't like to give up the keys to the bus when I'm the one who took it out of the garage. I'd prefer a situation where I set the price on a scare card, where I am able to fold (or evaluate) on a raise rather than check and allow someone else to set the price that I have to play. The interesting thing with this hand is that with the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] you may very well still be drawing to a better flush in addition to your full house/quad outs so I definitley push the turn. [/ QUOTE ] people definitely have their own style, but i think i disagree with almost everything you said in that post... i dont think you need to be consistent in this situation at all because people play terribly and the optimal value and bluff lines are not the same... i would almost never bet the flop and shove the turn with any two cards... having the best flush draw is a reason to check not bet...
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