Jail Buddies

[tangled]

I thought of something that I can't figure out myself, and I don't remember this situation discussed yet here.

The first deposit I ever made to a site was with my bank card. Also, I've read posts here that mention the use of credit cards to put money onto a site.

So, my question is: Why aren't there some US bank presidents sharing a bunk beside the Neteller founders? Haven't they comitted the same crime by passing money to sites for gambling purposes ?

I know I must be missing something obvious. But what?

[tendog]

there is a pretty big difference between neteller and the banks.

neteller's entire business was servicing gaming companies. they may not have intended it to me that way but that is essentialy how it turned out.

If the bank's were held responsible everytime someone made an illegal purchase there probably would be no banks left in the country.

[Niediam]

Bank presidents are rich American citizens who pay taxes and whose primary business does not involve online gambling.

[thirstyforwater]

The money laundering charge has an intent element - a mental state that the criminal must have. So, even though Neteller and a bank may have done the same act, it makes sense that the co-founders of Neteller were charged.

In the charge it states:
That they "wilfully and knowingly did combine, conspire, confederate, and agree together and with each other to violate Section 1956(a)(2)(A) of Title 18, United States Code."

And "with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity"

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/...ntentID=163594

The government must prove that mental state. Nearly all of Neteller's merchants were gambling sites and presumably, the founders knew that transactions were going to sports betting sites. A bank on the other hand, can more easily "play dumb" and say that they did not have the intent to do the illegal transfers.

[MiltonFriedman]

"A bank on the other hand, can more easily "play dumb" and say that they did not have the intent to do the illegal transfers.'

Nonsense, a bank which issued VISA or Mastercar cards used for gaming coded transactions knew precisely where the funds were headed. So did VISA and Mastercard.

However, no major US Bank will be prosecuted for Wire Act aiding and abetting.

Interestingly, under In Re MasterCard Litigation, no US Bank would be prosecuted for a Wire Act violation involving a poker site because ONLY sports betting is covered.

[MiltonFriedman]

Would you feel that way if VISA/Mastercard transactions used to fund drug deals were specifically CODED to indicate that is what they were for ?

[thirstyforwater]

Maybe the question is more of: Can you prove the intent element? I would imagine that it is difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the President of the bank, "with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity," did illegal transfers. You can certainly prove that they did the illegal transfers.

It is much easier to prove in the case of Lefebvre. Here is some info from the complaint:

7 a. ...the defendant, collectively states that more than 95 percent of the revenues generated by the Neteller Group, is derived from processing money transfers pertaining to the online gambling market

b. Neteller PLC's 2004 annual report states that, in 2004...Neteller PLC provides gambling customers with access to more than 80 percent of the online gaming merchants in the world.

c. Neteller PLC's 2005 annual report states that... Neteller PLC provides gambling customers with access to more than 80 percent of worldwide gaming merchants...

d. In Neteller PLC's half yearly report for the six-month period ending June 30, 2006, dated September 11, 2006, the President and Chief Executive Officer of Neteller PLC described the "online gaming market" as Neteller PLC's "main market," and stated that, in the first half of 2006, Neteller PLC processed $5.1 billion in financial transactions, and that approximately 85 percent of Neteller PLC's revenue during that period derived from individuals in North America.

[JPFisher55]

But not all of these online gaming sites were sports betting sites.

[thirstyforwater]

[ QUOTE ]
But not all of these online gaming sites were sports betting sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that is true. That is kind of sloppy on the part of Garcia but I guess the USAO doesn't seem to think there is a difference between a sports betting site and other gambling sites.