Playing against non-raisers

udbrky · #1 02-09-2007, 02:34 PM

I've been having trouble playing against people who don't raise. Someone who's 33/0/.5 or so. They'll show down a wide range of hands, up to KK and never raise. Here's an example I just played:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($12.73)
BB ($1.70)
UTG ($3.52)
MP ($1.35)
CO ($5.60)
Button ($7.39)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.3, 1 fold, UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls $0.25.

Flop: ($0.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, CO calls $0.50.

Turn: ($1.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($1.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: $1.75

Should I play this any different? Am I correct in my analysis I'm either WWWWWWA/WWWWWWB? I didn't think he had a Q here. He showed down KK.

How do you guys read hands against such a passive player?

CrazyEyez · #2 02-09-2007, 02:40 PM

If they are 33 vpip and are showing down a wide range of hands, then you often have the best hand. You can't go into check-down mode and let them draw at everything for free.

Tighten up a little PF. Don't play out of position against them.

After you see some showdowns, evaluate exactly which type of hands they will call down with. Top pair or better? 2nd pair? Draws?

udbrky · #3 02-09-2007, 03:18 PM

I was playing pretty tight in that session. I think I ran 18/12 at 6max. I had either good hands, or junk. I only played marginal hands in position.

It's not the first time I've had trouble with overly passive players, it just seems to be happening all the time lately. A guy limp-calls. You hit TP with A-Q, or value bet your QQ overpair on a dry board, and then lose to a completely hidden KK or AA. I just don't feel like I have a good strategy for reading hands with this extremely passive of an opponent.

ispiked · #4 02-09-2007, 11:42 PM

It seems like the solution would just be to play more aggressively; e.g. bet more. Or are you saying that he's still going to just call you down since he has the best hand?

Desdia01 · #5 02-09-2007, 11:49 PM

I, personally, like the way you played the hand. Sometimes I would check a flop like this and the times I bet, it will probably be for a cheaper amount but not much.

Phytopath · #6 02-10-2007, 02:24 AM

Value bet, fold marginal hands when they fight back (rarely).

Value bet.

Mal_Pais · #7 02-10-2007, 02:47 AM

Against this Villian, I think you played the hand well. You got called on a dry board on the flop, and you were OOP, so you played a small pot with a one pair hand that wanted to see a cheap showdown. You lost the least amount possible with second best hand. Nice hand.

Vyse · #8 02-10-2007, 02:54 AM

Standard hand here. When the 5 on the turn hits, pretty much anything he's playing has you beat, and the river spade isn't going to change your mind. Checking it down here is optimal; the real trouble is what you do if he started betting at you.

With really passive players who call down anything, I just wait until I have a hand I can be very confident in. JJ on this type of board is not that type of hand. A hand with two pair or better or a flush draw (you can always bet the right amount to give you odds while simultaneously building the pot and concealing your hand, and they will keep calling) are the typical hands I value bet and want the pot big with.