Simple hand. 40/80 Live

[Harv72b]

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But with the possibility of some of your outs being in opponents' hands

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Is this what is meant by the phrase "some of your outs are dirty"?

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That's generally used to mean that some of your "outs" could in fact make someone else a better hand. For example, holding QJ on a JT84 board, your outs to a 9 would be dirty if someone is holding KQ, and your outs to a Q would be dirty if someone holds AK or a 9.

[JJH3984]

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This is super standard once you know that UTG+1 is spazzy.

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I think its standard regardless of your read on UTG+1. It's a clear value raise with the added benefit of a possible free card if needed.

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I'm not questioning the raise. I know why we are raising and I know we should raise here. I'm just saying we should raise the first time if UTG+1 is passive/bad instead of aggressive/bad.

[PokerTheorist]

There's no reason not to bet the turn. You have at least 11 outs. Even if you are raised you still have the correct odds to call. Another A might fold increasing your chances if an A hits the river. Betting here also sets up a bluff bet on the river. Checking here gives away your hand and all will fold to a spade on the river. With a pot this size there is no reason not to attempt a bluff here; only needs to work 1 out of 15 at least.

[bernie]

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I think the PFR has a set,

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A set would've capped(if he had it). Not sure a set is going to depend on a position flop raiser to bet the turn. I put him on an overpair at best.

b

[bernie]

You could almost bet the turn for value on the draw. If PFR folds AK, that's even better. So I could go either way. The problem is if you think UTG has 2 pair. This is how alot of these types tend to play 2 pair. He's probably putting you on a set with the 'wake up and 3 bet'.

I'd probably take the free card and hope for a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to hit.

b

[TheHip41]

and?

[jedi]

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Is the flop play simply a case of pushing your equity edge (with the nut flush draw & 3 opponents) as far as possible?

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I think so. Hero didn't raise first time around since it would force the field to face 2 bets cold. Once UTG+1 repops it and PFR just calls, hero is pumping up the pot with his draw. Even if UTG+1 caps it, by this time the pot is getting big and no one will fold. Hero isn't going to win this hand UI anyways (very slight chance an A is good), so you might as well keep people in the hand.

Of course if I were playing it, I'd have raised the flop first in and then cursed at my bad play when everyone else folds.

Turn is standard.

[BigBadBabar]

Joe, I like your play, and I don't see any reason not to take the free card, as it seems very unlikely that everyone is going to fold if we bet the turn, and our hand obviously needs to improve to win the hand, and we have a good number of outs to do that on the river.

[bernie]

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as it seems very unlikely that everyone is going to fold if we bet the turn,

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You don't necesarily need 'everyone' to fold on the turn bet. Just a person with a better hand. You might be ahead of everyone else who stays in.

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[Big Folder]

I lead out on the flop hoping it get raised by button. Only if I knew that UTG1 was so spazzy that he C/R all the time would i not bet out.