Please help me learn

[Wes64]

Did I misplay this hand? This is my first post, so I also welcome comments on the form of the post.

I am playing 2-5 NL at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. I have never played there before, have only been there about 45 minutes, and do not know anyone at the table. In the only hand I have shown down, I had quad 4s and took an entire stack from top two pair (KJ).

There is an agressive, young player directly across the table from me (I am in 8 seat, he is in 4). He is making lots of raises preflop betting people out of pots. I don't think I had seen his cards once. I have about $575 and he has about $650.

I am in BB. There is one limper before the villain acts. He raises $20, making it $25 to go. The cutoff agonizes and then calls. All fold to me. My hand is Jd Jc. I raise $50, making it $75 to go. Villain thinks a minute and calls. Cutoff quickly folds. I am heads up with the villain and first to act.

Flop comes Tc 7c 4s. I check, villain checks.

Turn come 3d. I bet $150. Villain quickly calls.

River comes 5c. I bet $150. Villain pauses, then calls. He waited for me to turn over my cards, looked at them closely, then turned over 8s 6s. His runner, runner straight to the 8 wins.

I confess I did not see that the turn could have made a double gutshot straight draw. That is clearly a mistake I will try not to make again.

I did not bet the flop for 2 reasons. First, I saw the clubs and the potential straight draw. I was going to give a free card on the turn and then bet big if the draw did not hit. I have had lots of people call big bets on the flop on a draw because they had two cards to come. I thought, if the turn does not help a drawing hand, bet it and maybe AT or Axc calls me down when they are not getting proper odds to do so.

Second, I was a little afraid of his smooth call pre-flop. That would have been a pretty good way to play AA or KK.

The obvious response to this post is: bet big (or even go all-in) on the flop. But why is that right and what I did wrong? If I had bet $200 on the flop and he had raised all-in, what should I have done then? If I go all in and get a call, I am beat for sure, right?

I would appreciate your constructive criticism.

[JAA1337]

I would have bet the flop with a typical 2/3 continuation bet. I might have checked the turn being OOP, but if you think he is a bit LAGish, pot the flop and play from there.

[TxRedMan]

First, where do you play in Dallas?

Second, you made a good PF raise, and a horrible check on the flop.

Why do you assumer your opponent is drawing? Because there are draws out there on this board?

You have a very fragile hand, JJ, and you are vulnerable to any overcard,


Bet this flop, the size of the pot, and take it down.

Be glad you weren't raised on the river, too.

When villain calls this turn bet, I would put him n a draw then, but only then, given the way the hand was played.

I would have check folded this river, because villain is only calling this river with hands he beats.


But, first things first, BET THIS FLOP.

If he's drawing, you want him to call a big bet on the flop because YOU'RE the favorite.


Again, bet this flop, the size of the pot, and take it down.

If you did bet $200 on the flop, and he pushed, you should call. You're not deep enough to think about getting away from JJ on this flop to this kind of opponent, like, ever. The keyword you used to describe this opponent is aggressive, and a lot of players push on this flop with A 10, K 10, etcetera.


Do not give up the lead on this flop!!!!!!

[amoeba]

granted you lost the hand but I think you played it excellently.

[TxRedMan]

Why would you ever give a free card here on the flop, especially being OOP....?

Sure, it's nice when you can check-raise an agg. player all-in on this flop, but this guy doesnt seem to be the type to make that play, and by checking the flop he runs the risk of not only getting outdrawn, but also outplayed.

[Wes64]

I play at Jackie's, Platinum room, Muirfield, American Legion.

Thanks for the comments. Check-fold on the river is good advice.

I am sure you are right, but how is it consistent to say call down an all-in reraise with JJ on the flop but at the same time say he does not seem like the type to make a big bluff on the flop behind my check? If he is not the type to do that, isn't A T the only hand that he could have that he would raise me all-in on the flop and that I could beat?

I am persuaded that the check on the flop was a donk play, I just want to understand exactly why.

[TxRedMan]

i play at the legion....

you misunderstood me, im saying that you dont seem to be the type to check raise all-in on this flop, i wasnt saying anything about your opponent.

and no, if you did check to him, he would probably put you an AK, as they always do, and bet all pairs.

if you knew him better, and expected that he would try and bet this flop to take it away from you, then i would like a check raise, but, with relatively little history with him, i play straight forward and bet this flop and take it down there, i dont get tricky.

but the thing i didnt like the most is that you checked assuming you had the best hand, and assuming your opponent was drawing. there is nothing to lead you to believe he is drawing when the flop come out like it did, because there is no action to indicate it. but what's worse, is that you were too careful in your actions, in other words, you assumed he was drawing and you decided to let him have one free shot at a draw, and if a blank did hit the turn, the you would bet big and try to take it down. this logic is seriously flawed, if he indeed was drawing on this flop, you would be better off getting it allin on the flop when you're a favorite, and not worrying about the results, because, the key thing to remember in poker and gambling is that the results done matter, only the decisions.

[Wes64]

Good points, thanks.

[Leptyne]

From your description of the villain he sounds like a LAG, at least preflop. Since he's entering a lot of pots with raises he can't always have good cards. Since the second player in agonized over his call I expect your JJ is good preflop. Raise more preflop to at least $75 to make calling on a draw incorrect. Now you're pretty sure you're ahead when the flop comes and you're HU with a LAG that could have any two and there is a flush draw plus a straight draw and the not-so obvious double-belly that hit on the flop, not the turn.

Your JJ looks to be good since no overcard flopped, but the problem is that the turn could beat you, or could kill your action. Since there are so many cards that you don't want to see on the turn you bet the flop and you bet the flop in a manner to make drawing incorrect.

The same thing on the turn. Since villain called your flop bet incorrectly you now place him squarely on a draw. Since you know what his odds are (implied odds) you take away his implied odds by betting an amount that makes calling incorrect. When a player takes the worst of it in terms of odds, like getting 2-1 when he needs to get 4-1, then you've done your job. Sometimes they'll hit, but you have made them play incorrectly. If you continue to play this way, i.e. giving 2-1 when villain needs 4-1, oviously you are getting the best of it. You should be glad when villain plays incorrectly and is successful as this will encourage villain to keep making incorrect plays. "Don't tap the aquarium".