FD aggressively played

[hunter.chief]

Only read: button is very loose-aggressive.

My main question is on the flop. We have quite a strong hand here so i think the first raise is standard. but do we cap or call a 3bet here? which line has more value?

Any comments on other streets welcome.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.10/$0.2
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12SB, 6 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (13.5BB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (15.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: 17.5BB

[OziBattler]

I like it and Im surprised MP2 folded for 2 more after calling 2 on the flop. nice hand.

[Zeldark]

You weren't kidding about that aggressive stuff. Awesome.

[Ampelmann]

You have a monster draw on the flop. Pump it up.

I don't understand MP2's flop play.

[martybonus]

:grunch:

I'm going to disagree with this lot, but someoen do correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't like the limping with A3 in MP. You've got no kicker for top pair and your 3 is no good as a top pair. In LP sure, but in MP or EP I'd fold this hand. SSHE has more detail on this. Essentially this hand is only good for its flush potential. More often than not you'll get in marginal situations when you only have a back door flush draw, and maybe top pair crap kicker, or bottom pair. These marginal situations cost alot of money IMO cos you'll feel obliged to pay to see the turn for the BDFD or maybe even call down if you've got TP weak kicker. Only 6% of flops are mono-suited.

I don't much care for the flop cap either. Again, folks, please correct if wrong.

Any time you cap the flop you
1) increase the % of the pot that you've contributed.

If you contribute more than 35% of the pot on a flush draw, you've made an error. You're on a huge draw that comes through 35% of the time but if you're putting in 50% of the pot, you're in -EV land.

In this situation, it's correct cos you've got a total of 3 players willing to cap AND you have the PF betting. so you've only put in 20% of the pot or so. But this would be a different story HU.

2) you're forcing other players to call correctly.

When the pot is big, you encourage players to correctly call later streets. it's 13.5:1 for your bet on the turn. Even gut-shots will call this.

Now in this situation it's fine cos your nut flush comes through on the turn and you're not afraid of any other hands (ie no paired board).

But generally, if you allow the board to become 'too large' with a vulnerable hand (say a straight), you encourage people to correctly call you down with their own draws which may beat you.

So in a word: I like your play here in this instance but I think there's more to think about here than just making a huge pot.

[calidris]

Limping A3s from MP is fine (according to SSHE as well). On the flop you got 2 other players who seem willing to pump the pot. Your flush comes in 35% of the times by the river and you pay 33% of each bet in this pot. By all means, cap it. Situation would be even clearer if you had AKs/AQs or something like that.

[Dam]

Martys right about the Limp pre-flop IMO. It can lead you into all kinds of trouble.

Apart from that I like the hand. ESPECIALLY the cap on the flop. Aggression is good. You have all kinds of outs with that flop

[OziBattler]

marty, limping Axsooted in this game (stars 0.1/0.2 players indeed do suck and payoff when u make your flush) is perfectly ok when you have a limper and expect limpers behind. Also capping the flop is good because you put in less than your fair share when you have a nutflush on a non-paired board when it is 4 way...please re-assess point 1 in terms of equity etc

edit: just dont get married to a SD when you flop TPWK or BKTK and you encounter action

Z

[fretelöo]

Limp PF is fine. You're looking for some miracle flops allright, but if you got those, they are huge money makers. Not much different from 78s, actually. There, you hope to make flushes and straights, and the few times you loose to higher flushes/straights is offset by the fact that you can make both.

With Axs, you give up most of your straight potential, but you have the NF if you make it. Add the few times where your A3 will crack KK and some miracle 2pair flops, and you definitely should limp.
What to do if it's folded to you, is a lot closer decision.

Rest of the hand is fine, though marty makes the right point that you're only +EV if you have at least 2 callers with you on the flop. So blindly capping is a nono, you still have to assess the probability that one of the last two will still fold to the cap (which is probably small). Also, you've got BP to go with it, so a cap here is probably right even if you end up HU (as it gives you a few additional outs).

[martybonus]

[ QUOTE ]
marty, limping Axsooted in this game (stars 0.1/0.2 players indeed do suck and payoff when u make your flush) is perfectly ok when you have a limper and expect limpers behind. Also capping the flop is good because you put in less than your fair share when you have a nutflush on a non-paired board when it is 4 way...please re-assess point 1 in terms of equity etc

Z

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I see what you mean. non-paired board and multiple opponents means his 35% chance of getting the nuts is worth going crazy for. heck, an example just like this is on like pg 25 of SSHE.

his opponents have *no* way of hitting the nuts (assuming board doesn't pair) and as such hero is taking this pot 100% of the times he hits his flush. so he can safely make it as big as he likes and walk away if he misses the flush. cos he's probably not putting greater than 35% of the pot cos there are 4 players or whatever.

but HU or a paired board is a whole different kettle of fish isn't it? cos now he's contributing more than 35% of the pot and he's not winning 100% of the time he hits his flush.

right? it all comes down to whether his % contributed to the pot is greater than his equity...?