Two AK hands - standard folds?

[EGO]

HAND #1
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
6 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

<font color="green">BB is a 16/7/1 TAP, who has defended his blind about 35% of the time over the last few thousand hands. </font>

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

<font color="green">I question this one because villian is the kind of player who is capable of donk-bluffing paired turn card, putting me (correctly) on missed overcards. </font>

HAND #2
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
10 players
Converter

MP3 is a 17/12/2 TAG.
MP2 is a 26/4/1 sLPP.

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (13SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

<font color="green">The board looks relatively safe, so I'm planning on check-raising the turn.</font>

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.5BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Hero folds

<font color="green">I question this hand, because I could be splitting with MP3, and be forfeiting half the pot. I really think that if he had aces, then he probably wouldn't have raised the flop. I usually take this to 3-town, but am working on realizing when I'm beaten. Someone waking up when the board coordinates itself and another guy just not backing down spells certain doom for my tptk, yes?</font>

[pena]

hand 1 - I think I fold as well on turn. It's unlikely opponent has a 8. But he might have pocket pair, split pair etc. which beats you or he's bluffing. However, tiny pot, so I'd fold.

hand 2 - I would 3-bet the flop and bet and fold the turn.

[elmopoker]

I'd bet/fold turn on hand 2, hand 1 i think you made the correct decision.

[winkydinky85]

Yes and yes.

[sean c]

EGO,

Both these hands look good.

[Ricks]

I think that the first hand is a good fold. Unless you think that Villain is donking with air more than half the time, I think that you have to just give the hand up.

In hand 2, I think that if you are going to donk the flop, it should be with the intention of 3-betting. If he then caps, I would c/f the turn as you did. I don't believe that you are ahead after MP2 wakes up and MP3 raises and the best you can hope for is a Q on the river. Drawing to that may cost you many BBs and you may be drawing dead to a set, flush or splitting with another str8.

[Zeldark]

I fold both where you folded them.
This advice for hand one is particularly image dependent against thinking players, so keep that in mind. The more experienced people may scold me for suggesting this, but I likes it:

IF your opponent is a thinking player and knows you're waiting for premium cards to steal, perhaps you should widen your range a little bit. If he thinks you're stealing with any 2 than you might want to tighten up. Against a thinking opponent in the blinds, I try to steal enough to make him suspicious, but not enough so that he knows I'm just gunning for his blind. Ideally he isn't really sure whether my current attempt is done with quality cards or a lesser, marginal or crap hand. He will at times guess wrong, and that's good for me. When the flop hits, you'll still do some folding, but when it lands and you have cards he's not suspecting (either better or "worse" than he thought it was), hopefully you'll be able to outplay him. You're still not going to get married to the flop, which also means that it'll be hard to put you on what your goal was with that hand too.

Bet/Fold the turn on hand 2. Good that you noticed a player waking up. If Mp3 has AK as you say, there's a 50/50 chance his ace is a spade and he's freerolling to the flush. If they don't have 2 pair with Ax or a straight or a flush, as you played the turn, they still have effectively cut your outs if you are going to draw to trips or a better 2 pair.

[Mister Moe]

Both of these hands look correct. I'm slightly tempted to 3-bet the flop on hand 2, but folding the turn definitely looks right as played.

[ QUOTE ]

<font color="green">BB is a 16/7/1 TAP, who has defended his blind about 35% of the time over the last few thousand hands. </font>


[/ QUOTE ]

You have a few thousand hands on this guy? That's pretty sick! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ChulioBarth]

I would raise the turn in the first hand and fold to a 3-bet. This may be surprising but I see a lot of people betting when a scare card hits, especially on a Blind Steal. You will be surprised how often they suddenly release their hand.

[campi]

grunch

1st one: according to my (limited) experience donkbetting the turn is USUALLY weak, meaning villain has a small pair or a 7 and wants you to fold. His stats say it may not be the case, however I'd call, against a known LAGgish player sometimes raise.

2nd one seems good to me, youre almost always beaten.