UIGEA Fallout! Don't Worry about the eWallets: Worry about the Network

[MiltonFriedman]

billman,

Ignoring the self-satisfied smirk of your post, I still need to ask what you mean by "worked with the PPA to get the word out".

What "word" was that ?

1. Donate to the PPA, or
2. Do nothing about the regulations being written currently, or
3. Donate to the PPA, or
4. Rend your garments after each new prosecution.

Since you brought it up, what website are you running ?

[BruinEric]

Milton,

Gee...nice work...by being a pain, now you've been exposed as a co-conspirator in the gang causing the imminent destruction of online poker.

[ QUOTE ]

Billman wrote:

"The reason online poker will eventually be destroyed is because of people like those in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Billman]

Hi Milton,

Sorry if it comes off as smirking. That's not the intent though I'm sure if you disagree with me it's probably easy to read that into it. Being an a-hole by nature even my non-smirking still has a hint of smirking.

I've been one of the earliest supporters of the PPA. I've spoken to PPA President Michael Bolcerek more than a few times about raising the organizations awareness in the community of poker bloggers so they could in turn spread the message to a wider audience. I've gone out and personally contacted other poker bloggers and asked them to spread the word. I also, along with another poker blogger, asked Howard Lederer to come speak at a tournament of poker bloggers in Vegas where he talked about the trip he did to DC with the PPA.

And I've also busted the PPA's chops about where I saw them failing. There are a lot of things they've done and haven't done that I don't 100% agree with but I do think that they're at least out there trying. I know the PPA's name has been dragged through the mud on 2+2 but I also know exactly how understaffed they are and I have to give some kudos to Michael. He's always come off to me as nothing other than a guy busting his butt trying to change things.

You can check my profile for my website. The mods always get touchy about posting links to your own site here :-)

[Billman]

[ QUOTE ]
Milton,

Gee...nice work...by being a pain, now you've been exposed as a co-conspirator in the gang causing the imminent destruction of online poker.

[ QUOTE ]

Billman wrote:

"The reason online poker will eventually be destroyed is because of people like those in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

See, nobody knew Milton was do devious. :-)

What I mean is that this attitude that as long as there's some way, any way to get money onto an online poker site all isn't done for yet. I know a lot of people have been very chicken-little and inflamatory but there are just as many people with the "nothing to see here - go about your business" attitude. I think if people had a much more objective attitude about this they would be much more pissed off at what's going on.

And to Milton's previous smikry remark (about me being smirky not him), some of that is the frustration of reading post after post after post from people who make outright false claims about how ACH or bank networks operate. When someone challenges me on something I know far more about than they do they're likely to meet with the pent up frustration of reading 100 posts filled with inaccurate information and, in some cases, outright lies - even if they were not the source of that inaccurate info. I apologize if I came off as smirky. It's just that I do know something about this topic and I do care about what's happening.

[BruinEric]

Good reply -- and I agree with you that people thinking the EFT / ACH / Credit Card pipeline will always be available one way or another are almost certainly wrong.

In fact, I get the sense that ePassporte is going to be a problem soon. See this thread from a guy getting called by BofA about funding ePassporte:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post9082770

Note that the call wasn't about fraudulent charge concern, but that BofA specifically mentioned funding online gaming even though it was a "mixed-use" site like ePassporte. It might not be long for major banks to block ePassporte CC/ATM deposits because of risk management.

[MiltonFriedman]

Lay off of Billman, please. I thought his response when I called him out was both professional and courteous.

No bad blood here. He was somewhat frustrated at some of the 'know-nothing" rants that take place herein. I can understand that.

Hey, Bill ... I've met Mr. B. also, but have a vastly different view of his political effeciveness, judgment, or utility to his "cause", regardless of how sincere he may be. Politically, he is way over his head and paying the wrong advisors, folks who have zero reason to help him out versus the hands that have fed them for years.

[MiltonFriedman]

"In fact, I get the sense that ePassporte is going to be a problem soon. See this thread from a guy getting called by BofA about funding ePassporte"

I also agree on this one. (Geez, what's next ... a group hug?)

Epassporte is already tagged by US Banks as a gaming funds conduit.

[Billman]

I can agree with you on some of your critisisms of MB and the PPA in general. In fact I've voiced some of those thoughts to Michael personally. On the other hand, I don't see much of an alternative. At least MB is out there and getting some air time for "the cause" which is more than anybody else seems to be doing. That's why I say I have kudos for the guy. This isn't his line of work. He got involved because he cared. I'm sure he's doing quite a bit of learning on the job.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
Bank wires are very similar to ACH/EFT. Again, all they need is a list of offenders. I don't think the DOJ will have too hard of a time supplying a frequently updated list of offenders.

[/ QUOTE ] Really? The ECB on February first responded to the US subpoenas for SWIFT data by informing them that the request for assistanceand/or access from the DOJ in monitioring SWIFT transactions was outside the purview of their oversight.

As it stands, SWIFT in the wake of 911 agreed to allow limited access to their transactions to the US government in the hopes of aiding the US fight against terrorism. Since then they have fought aggressively to not expand the scope of that jurisdiction and will likely will continue to do so. The recent comments from the EU director re: protectionism were likely as a result of a FINCEN study (an incredibly dubious one but that type of incompetence has been standard in the exectuive branch under Bush) that was also objected to *again* by the American Banker's Associaton:

News that the US government had been secretly scrutinising suspect wire transfers sent over the interbank Swift network also prompted the ABA to raise objections to the database system. It was reported that the ABA preferred that the US continue with the Swift scheme over the database project because it was more targeted and allowed law enforcement officals to scan data without requiring new reporting requirements from banks.

My information is from finextra which has a vested interest here and European based banks do a significant portion of all SWIFT traffic.

[Black_Angler]

ahhh..everybody should just move to LA...you can call crash at my place [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

DW