QQ vs raiser

[PokerTheorist]

This is an interesting hand that I played the other night.

.25/.50 NL 10 handed. $20 buy-in.

Hero has ~$38.
Villain has ~$60.

UTG limps. UTG+1 makes it $1 to go.
Hero in MP2 finds Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] raises to $3.
Villain in the cutoff who is a tight straighforward type of player makes it $8.
All fold to Hero who calls.

FLOP : J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks.
Villain bets $8.
Hero reraises and makes it $20.
Villain calls.

Turn : K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks.
Villain raises to put Hero all in (about $10 left).
Hero Folds and shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Was this a good fold? What did the villain have? I'll relate the rest of the story and my own analysis if there is any interest.

[kitaristi0]

This belongs in either uNL or the Full Ring forum.

[Flatlanman3]

worst fold ive ever seen , if you are going to fold , fold PREFLOP. Once u are in for 28 of ur 38 stack, are you seriously folding this turn?, thats putting him on AK and AK only, and i think u should have shoved flop or folded preflop

[Abramovic]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero Folds and shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 2 big mistakes here.

[Hince]

Just push the flop or call his flop bet. Raising and leaving 1/3 of your stack and c/f the turn blows monkey balls.

[PokerTheorist]

I do not understand the reasoning behind the comments posted here. The analysts do not like that I bet nearly 3/4 of my stack and eventually folded. In a tournament I could see how this would be a bad play because I would be severely short stacked afterwards. But in a cash game I can always rebuy at any time. If you are beat what is the point of shoving in the rest of your chips?

My own analysis is as follows.



Preflop
Against this player I figured the reraise meant AK, KK, or AA, with AK being most likely. I ruled out JJ or TT since this player was slightly timid and not so tricky. Relatively speaking, we both had big stacks and it didnt' seem like good poker to risk all my chips on what was at best a coin flip. Taking risks like that is not what poker is about for me. I would be called immediately if he had AA or KK and would be very far behind. So I just called. As it is I had to call $5 into a $13 pot.


Flop

The flop was good for me but I still wasn't sure if he had AA or KK. Betting here and getting called doesn't seem to tell me anything.
I check to get a line on him. He shorts his bet by only betting $8 into a ~$18 pot. At this point I put him on AK. With a very small chance that he slowplayed AA or KK. I am ahead and reraise $12.

He is getting approximately 3-1 on his overcards (6 outs). He calls. Now I am sure he has AK. I plan on moving all in on the turn.

Turn:

The turn brings a bad card for me. He either made his overcard draw or I was already beat if he slowplayed his pp.

He bets $10 putting me all in. There is $58 in the pot. I am getting 6-1 with only 2Q in the deck to save me.

I fold and show Q Q.



Follow up

He shows me A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . As I suspected he made his K. But not only did he have overcards for 6 outs, he had the nut flush draw for a total of 12 outs. I had one club remember. So instead of getting 3-1 on the flop with his 6 outs, he had 12 outs. With my remaining $10 his implied odds were 4-1 making his call correct.

Had I been 100% sure he had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I would have pushed on the flop. But I could not know he had such a miracle flop.

My friend who was dealing went fishing and revealed the river would have been a Q. I would have had a full house and won a $70 pot and been a hero with my big suckout, but instead I lost about $30.


Did I think about this wrong? Does anybody know if/where I messed up? How and why would you have played it differently?

[Abramovic]

[ QUOTE ]
Relatively speaking, we both had big stacks

[/ QUOTE ]

In relation to what? Are you levelling us?

[carrotsnake]

you would have pushed if he had AKcc but not if he didn't have the clubs ? Weird, since he's ahead with clubs and behind without. That just don't make sense

[PokerTheorist]

[ QUOTE ]
you would have pushed if he had AKcc but not if he didn't have the clubs ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a typo because I had copied what I previously wrote. I meant to say I would have pushed if I was sure he had AK. Only 1/16 of which could have been A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[PokerTheorist]

[ QUOTE ]

In relation to what? Are you levelling us?

[/ QUOTE ]

After his raise preflop there was $13. I had $35 left. It is silly to put $35 to win $13 on what is likely a coin flip.

I do not know what you mean when you ask if I am levelling[sic] you.