Ace/King out of position???

[MikeyG80]

I recently sat down at a 1/2 nl cash game at a fire hall hosted by an acquaintace of mine. I was getting big hands , like Ace/King, Ace/Queen, King/Queen suited, more times than I ever remembered. But, I was getting these hands out of position, usually facing a raise and missing every flop. In a cash game table, what are some things I can do with hands like Ace/King in early position facing a re-raise and having no draws or nothing on the flop. Usually was up against a pocket pair like 8's or something. That's just the way it goes sometimes, but I wasn't going to be stuck calling raises and folding on a blank board. Tried leading out on some flops, but against good players that won't work all the time. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

[Jurrr]

3bet AK against your average opponent. Make them fear you have KK+. AQo and KQs aren't really such big hands; I'd lay down both against your average UTG raise and get my money in at another time.

[viper930]

3betting AK against most opponents in full ring is a very very big leak for the exact reason that you mention: they will fear KK+. Hence only hands that dont fear KK+ will continue playing the hand with you. Do you see why that is bad?

[Jurrr]

If you are very deep and/or against bad opponents they may play their whichever pocket pair (e.g., QQ) for set value which would be a mistake on their part. And if villain is raising any PPs then it is denying him set odds. And you win the pot the times he lays down QQ- (and times when he actually has KK+ when you hold AK will be rare).

But you are probably right and what I say doesn't apply to all or any non-micro stakes and it is turning our AK into a bluff/ATC.

P.S. Still, why does IMHO Harrington and surely Lederer in one of his tapes suggest it be done?

P.P.S. Here's the thread that discusses 3-betting in FR.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9044613

[SMACK BOOTY]

3-bet is one option, but with an aggresive table attacking OOP raises on dry boards, i'm limp/calling PF. Because you limped, you'll get paid off if villians hit TP and you have them outkicked. Show down a couple of these hands, plus your PF raises with QQ+, and that should slow people down. Later in the nite and you can start raising w/ AK again.
The AK dynamic is fluid at times, and you need to be aware of risks/rewards of each strategy and use them accordingly.

[MikeyG80]

So you're saying 3 bet the Ace/King to make them fear KK. That is post flop? If i lead out on the flop and he calls or raise, you're saying re-raise? If that is the case, the only thing I was saying was, I was in a game where people were calling the bet pre flop and calling any bet or raising post flop. If you hit a flop you are getting paid, but my problem is, which I have seen a lot at casinos at 1/2 nl level, is that people just call down everything if they have anything at all. The bluff wouldn't work in that game at that time. I missed almost every flop i had two big cards in, i never paired anything up and don't think i was dealt a pair higher than 6's in about a two and a half hour period. If you're raising pre flop with ace/king and getting called or reraised and missing all your flops, any lead out will be called no matter how big, don't want to go all in with a bluff that might get called too. I saw a guy call all his chips off with pocket 4's with a board of Ace-Queen-Jack (all suited spades) he didn't even have a spade either. The guy had one spade and a straight draw but didn't get there.

I guess just have to dump these hands untill i hit right? Online I've had this happen a lot when i played online often. Representing strength pre flop with hands like ace/king, having a call and missing the board and having another call with any lead on an uncoordinated flop. Did i get your help correct and understand it properly?

[Parlay Slow]

[ QUOTE ]
3betting AK against most opponents in full ring is a very very big leak for the exact reason that you mention: they will fear KK+. Hence only hands that dont fear KK+ will continue playing the hand with you. Do you see why that is bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

so then i could show a big profit 3 betting a wide range of hands and repping KK+ post flop?

KK+ is real tough to beat..

[dotbum]

[ QUOTE ]

P.S. Still, why does IMHO Harrington and surely Lederer in one of his tapes suggest it be done?


[/ QUOTE ]

They were probably talking about tournaments, and even then I think the small ball players would disagree and often smooth call a raise with AK?

[Jurrr]

Frankly, maybe I don't understand the situation. Can you provide a specific hand example? What happened preflop?

If you miss the flop with AK and are facing a donkbet don't play on unless the donkbettor is a total moron.

[MikeyG80]

Here is the exact situation. 1/2 nl ring game live. 8 people.
I am in early position and bet $10 into a pot of $3. I have Ace/King off suit. Got a call from a player in late position with a board of 10-9-4 I bet $25 into a pot of $23 and get raised $35 more on top of that. I have no draw, I have no pair, Ace high. I dump it and move on. This then happens about a half dozen times that session. Two big cards, and I agree with an earlier comment, Ace/Queen and King/Queen aren't the biggest of hands. I agree and am not saying i fell in love with them. Two large unpaired cards in early position in a ring game, was just asking advice on when you're up against mid pairs and hands like that pre flop and you're missing every flop with the action on you , first to bet. Is there any way to play these hands differently when you're probably going to get called if you lead out or re-raise? Level of play is very beginner-average. Even in my online play, was just asking advice when you hit a dry spell with big to moderate hands and you're missing the flop consistantly for a few hours without even getting a draw or anything. Just keep dumping and pick your spots when you get them? I am just saying what if you never get them?