Dealt 15 pocket pairs in 3 hours. Should I be raising all these pf?

[revlwb]

If others have cold called and/or the table is really loose passive the value of hitting a set goes way up in my opinion.

[BigBadBabar]

right but if we agree that in 4/8 live or any no foldem game, no one is gonna fold really anyway, 3jacking hands like 33 or 44 preflop after a raise or a raise and a lot of coldcallers is going to create a huge pot, yes, but it's never going to win unimproved. so if we agree that we're playing for set value then let's see the flop for 2 bets (coldcall) instead of 3 (3betting); that way when usually the flop comes k78 we save a bet. that made sense to me when i was typing it just now; hope it's not garbled [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[BigBadBabar]

unless we get a free card like every time, which in my experience won't happen; even if you 3bet preflop with whatever, aa or 33, and flop is k78, the guy with 79 is still going to donk the flop and the guy with T6 is still going to call him, so we won't get the free card usually.

[reutel]

3 betting 33 EP is terrible. it will scare some people away, that would happely cold call. 52s anyone? You don't get more EV from building a big pot, because you only hit it 1/8. (ONLY if all nine people where sure to call, than you can make a case...)

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]

Read page 84 of SSHE. The FIRST sentence states, "Many people may be surprised to see that we recommend playing small pocket pairs so often, particularly from early position and against a raise.".

What's good for Sklansky is good for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've taken Sklansky's comments out of context.

Page 84 of SSHE is part of a chapter about tables that have 6-8 players in every flop, and it says nothing about reraising with 33 in UTG+1 against an UTG raise. However, more important is the following paragraph taken from the same page.

[ QUOTE ]
"You should cold call a raise only rarely, especially if you are the first to do so. We recommend cold-calling a raise in a tight game with only AKs, AQs, and KQs (also sometimes with medium and small pocket pairs and suited connectors when three or more playes have entered the pot*). Every other hand you play against a raise you should usually reraise."

[/ QUOTE ]

*implies the opposite of a tight game, and it says nothing about 3 betting. In fact, I think the last sentence, where the emphasis is mine, says quite the opposite.

I normally don't open Sklansky's book and quote text, as I'd rather paraphrase. The reason I did in this case is because I felt that the advice given was quite bad. The last thing you want to do with pocket 3's is chase other players out of the pot. The only way I call two bets cold with pocket 3's from UTG+1 is if I know for sure that there will be callers after me. The only way I reraise with pocket 3's from UTG+1 is if I'm guaranteed that there will be seven opponents seeing the flop (which is basically never).

In games that almost always see a showdown, You need to get 8 to 1 on your set in order to make seeing the flop profitable. If you're putting in three bets preflop, you need to make 24 bets profit. When you automatically 3-bet the UTG raiser, you're going to find yourself heads up isolating a big hand all too often, and your also going to find that you're rarely going to get your prerequisite 8 to 1 when he goes into call-down mode on the turn.

[binki]

If it will help here, I had 33 in EP twice and folded both, once to a pf raise by the woman on my right (she had QQ) and everyone else folded so she picked up what was left of the blinds after the drop. There was never a time during this session that anyone folded a hand pf if they had already put money in. This was a typical no-foldem game to the river. Hands that missed on the river were only sometimes folded and 2 players were all-in repeatedly with short or min rebuys each time. One guy even rebought with his last $11 (all ones) after donking away $300. The big winner was a must-see-flop guy that flopped a straight two hands in a row calling a capped pf round with T6o on the first one. He picked up about $350 during the session.

I did do a lot of pf raising with a lot of limpers in front of me but I just couldnt' get very many hands to hold up. I was able to go from -$140 to -$30 before I left for the night.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]


Well, if I had to choose, I would say cold-call>fold.

[/ QUOTE ]


If I had to guess


You sucking >>> You not sucking


If someone raises UTG in a live game, 3 betting with 33 is really, really bad.

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]
2 players were all-in repeatedly with short or min rebuys each time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good example of a table where you don't want to cold call a raise UTG+1 with 33.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[noob_sauce]

yeah, i've seen these bad players on vacation... they often make it 3 bets with 22 or 33 vs. an ep raise