Long downswing just have some questions for you guys

[winkydinky85]

[ QUOTE ]
Take a Break.............

No poker for a week or two. No poker books, no 2+2, etc.


You need to let your mind settle back into "Winning" Mode again- and get it out of this "Sh*t, when is this F*ckin' nighmare going to end?????" Mode.

Don't take this as condescending- but I would suggest that only a small(ish) proportion of your downswing is due to variance. The rest is down to your play. If this is indeed the case (I've done it many times myself)- things won't change until you get the correct mindset back. Hence, a break is needed.

Ian

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have considered taking a day off or two but that is really hard to do. I just want to play through it and get it over with. I feel like I am playing much better now than I did before the downswing. Funny to say that when I am down 365 BB over the last roughly 18K hands but I feel my decision making and reads on hands has been way better than before. Before the downswing I used to spew all over the place and at the beginning of the downswing (probably the first 100BB) I was playing the same way as before the downswing and all the stupidity was catching up to me fast. Now I have removed a lot of spew spots in my game and my discipline is better than ever. That and I have improved my ability to fold the second best hand. I am just not getting anything to correspond with my improvement as a player. Hopefully I can get a huge upswing at some point so my research and improvements will pay off for me.

[martybonus]

winky,

You've got like 5x as many hands as I do, so this is going to sound pretensious no matter what.

You're addicted to poker. You need to cut it out or it's going to eat you alive. Have a wank, take a week off, and don't play poker. don't think about it.

You're almost certainly a better player than I am, but you're still new and you will make mistakes. If you amplify a single leak by 3+ tables, you could start to lose money very, very fast.

Worse, judging from your writin here, you seem to have convinced yourself it's not your play that's at fault. Or at least that it's mostly luck.

This may be true, but it is a very dangerous thing to convince yourself of.

It is an addict's line of reasoning.

At the very least, stop playing more than 1 table. focus on getting better. you can play 6+ tables later.

unless you're living off poker, there's no point grinding this hard.

and you prolly shouldn't be living off poker.

2 facts:

People get better at things when they rest, not when they perform. This is why athletes take days off. You can't spend 8 hrs a day in the gym and you can't spend 8hrs a day playing poker and expect to get better.

Poker addiction works just like any other addiction. Same dopaminergic pathway, same symptoms, etc. Take it lightly at your own peril.

Seriously, take some time off, play fewer tables, and don't stress out about it.

[winkydinky85]

Being addicted to poker is not a problem for me trust me. I am just committed to improving and I feel like I am making more and more progress everyday (whether or not my results do the same). I am actually playing a little less now than I was before the downswing and I am studying more. The reason I think I am playing better is the player I was 25K hands ago would be down probably 420-450 BB instead of 365 BB.

BTW I do not play 8 hours a day. Maybe 2 or 3 at the most on any given day.

[martybonus]

suit yourself.

everyone here seems to be suggesting it's partly you're play and that you ought to mellow out and play less, but you're convinced it isn't.

if that's the case, then why are you even bothering with a BBV post like this? if you're the dog's bollocks and pok4r then just keep playing and it'll all even out. in fact, you're probably so good that we shoudl all be asking *you* for poker advice. right?

if you do agree it is the case that a good portion of the variance is your play, the stfu and listen to the advice these guys give you. they are better than you. you are not as good as you think.

or maybe you are! in which case don't bother asking questions a poker god like yourself wouldn't deign to ask.


just as in your big 'i'm gonna conquer the world post' you seem to not be able to make your mind up whether you should take advice from this forum or not. you like to make out like you're teh h4x at poker lol11omglol, but a 365BB downswing seems to suggest otherwise.

moral of the story: don't ask advice that you're just going to vocally discount anyway. it's obnoxious.

[seano34]

"I have probably lost about 2/3rds worth of the downswing going after flushes and straights that are not coming"

That to me seems like a worry. I realise it is probably hard to view this objectively and I am not trying to be patronising, but you kind of sound from your post that you are on mega-tilt.

You talk a lot about never getting "hands" - sets, flushes, straights. Statistically you are not going to get hands like this often ie even if you have suited cards you are only going to hit your flush ~5-6% of the time.

If you are chasing big hands because you are concerned about getting your TPs outdrawn etc then you are probably neglecting your fundamentals.

I like what a lot of people have suggested. Take a couple weeks off poker - no poker at all.

Then go back and read SSHE - start off slowly, and get some confidence back.

[Black_Angler]

One thing I have done in a downswing is to fold marginal long shots. If I have a hand that has a slight +EV but is a long shot (i.e a gut shot with a huge pot) I will fold it. Of course, when your losing this is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to do, because you see alllll of that money and you want it. Although I am also aware of the theory that you should never change how you play based upon how you are running, I think plays that can reduce your variance (especially if you are running thin on your bankroll) can help this "I can't catch a card" syndrome because you will be playing more hands that are more likely to pan out. You give up a few small pennies in EV, but the dollars you gain in mental sanity (and possibly help keep your bankroll alive) can help alot.

Good Luck.

DW

[Watkins]

Winkydinky85,

Pick out your top 5 best played hands, your top 5 worst played hands and your top 5 worst beats from your recent sessions and post them here.

[OziBattler]

winkydink, youve been somehwat razzed in this thread and I see why. I honestly really think you need someone else to look over you play objectively.

I therefore have a onetime special offer for you. Signup for session reviews and I will make sure you get paired with a known good reviewer who can go over some hands for you. For the sake of breaking out of a 300+ downswing dont let this offer slip by

Z

[winkydinky85]

[ QUOTE ]
suit yourself.

everyone here seems to be suggesting it's partly you're play and that you ought to mellow out and play less, but you're convinced it isn't.

if that's the case, then why are you even bothering with a BBV post like this? if you're the dog's bollocks and pok4r then just keep playing and it'll all even out. in fact, you're probably so good that we shoudl all be asking *you* for poker advice. right?

if you do agree it is the case that a good portion of the variance is your play, the stfu and listen to the advice these guys give you. they are better than you. you are not as good as you think.

or maybe you are! in which case don't bother asking questions a poker god like yourself wouldn't deign to ask.


just as in your big 'i'm gonna conquer the world post' you seem to not be able to make your mind up whether you should take advice from this forum or not. you like to make out like you're teh h4x at poker lol11omglol, but a 365BB downswing seems to suggest otherwise.

moral of the story: don't ask advice that you're just going to vocally discount anyway. it's obnoxious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look I am not saying that I am some God of poker all I was trying to say is that in my opinion my play has improved because there were spots where before the downswing I was paying people off in spots in which I do not do now. I have stopped doing triple barrel bluffs and have not called near as many bets with just ace high. I have learned that they are not always bluffing me and that is the basis for my improvement as a player.

As it goes for the mega tilt comment that is also not the case. I have just been really dead on my draws for a long time. Of my last 50 flopped flush draws I have hit 7 of them. I do not have the calculations for straight draws though, they are not much better if at all. I do appreciate all of the advise whether it is to stop playing for a while and read SSHE again, or to just play through it and get some hand histories evaluated. Problem that I have with getting the hand histories evaluated is that I have been so card dead since I have been saving them that everything played is rediculously standard. But I will dig up a few and post them on here shortly.

I was posting this for support and for some knowledge on them. My downswings were always really quick and then I just got back up to par rather quickly after losing about 200BB or so. So this is just a new experience for me and so I am not used to going through one of these.

So let me ask you guys something really quick then. When you have looked back at your downswings and the hand histories what have you noticed that is different to mark you bad play of sorts?

[Joga Bonito]

I remember asking you how many tables you were planning on playing in that first post of yours and going back and forth with you, trying to warn you against your plan. The fact that your on a large downswing right now leads me to believe you should restrict the amount of tables you are playing.

How many tables are you playing currently? What is your VP$IP for the last.. 2 weeks of your play?