Why do seemingly good players loose?

[jjshabado]

Maybe you have it backwards. Maybe she's only so good at reading people because she plays 80% of hands preflop. Thats a lot of practice post-flop.

[canada_dry]

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Alot of those 'pros' on tv shouldn't be emulated simply because they suck.

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I've watched several episodes of High Stakes Poker and some of the guys (esp. Neagranu) have no respect for money or common card sense. Raising 35o is professional because you can "bet" your way through the hand? Eli Elezra was another loose fish. Very entertaining though. I never saw Brunson play trash out of position though.

[Edge34]

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Alot of those 'pros' on tv shouldn't be emulated simply because they suck.

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I've watched several episodes of High Stakes Poker and some of the guys (esp. Neagranu) have no respect for money or common card sense. Raising 35o is professional because you can "bet" your way through the hand? Eli Elezra was another loose fish. Very entertaining though. I never saw Brunson play trash out of position though.

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To avoid turning this into a lame "TV Poker" thread, I would tend to believe the reason a lot of these guys play the game the way they do is because they all know each other so very well. They're basically like 5th leveling each other in some ways (i think that he thinks that i think that he thinks that i think that he thinks I've got....). Not to mention, a sheer disregard for the actual money in play is likely another key to becoming profitable at a game like that.

These guys know how to beat a game full of fish. Beating the best in the world means getting creative sometimes.

[pyedog]

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Negreanu claimed to be playing (and raising) 75% of his hands at the WSOP ME last year. And he claimed his table was so soft that this was actually profitable, and I don't think this was on the bubble either.

I didn't believe him, and assumed he was either exaggerating, lying or being delusional, but he did make that claim several times in his blogs and ended up doing pretty well in the event.

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I think it was literal truth.

DN, temporarily, got on a table with a bunch of sad sacks, scared money, and easy reads. Why not raise every hand against them in deepstack NL? How's someone who you can read like a book possibly going to do any serious damage to you in that format?

Later on, though, one decent player landed at his table and DN didn't adapt, and it ruined his day.

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So he really ended up at a table with 8 absolutely terrible players in the WSOP main event with a $10K buyin? I understand that there are some weak players in that event, but everyone at the table? This just seems so implausible to me.

For example I assume that I have a comparable edge against the typical $10NL player to what Negreanu had against his weak WSOP table. But I don't think that I could raise 75% of hands and win at those stakes, even at 6 max. Or maybe if I could win slightly it still wouldn't be optimal compared to playing less than half of the hands. Hands like K3o really suck in hold em, even against bad players. Maybe if it was a play money game then I could see winning by raising 75% of hands, but that's a stretch.

I just can't fathom how bad these players would have to be for raising almost every hand to be profitable. Like maybe they'd never played poker before and all decided to take a shot in a $10K event while holding the card which states what hand beats what. Why wouldn't some of them just re-pop him big preflop with ATo+? Even if most of the players were bad and weak there must have at least been a bad LAG or calling station to keep him in line with trash hands.

I just get the feeling that he was overstating his edge and would have been better to play a little more conservatively.

[omaha]

Bad tables exist,and sometimes, just raising 3bb pf and cbet postflop will take down pots regardless of your cards

I had a recent tourney where i was on about 7k, and one guy had about 6, and another about 5. Three handed. I raise every hand and cbet, and stole about 4 of the 5 grand from the one guy. It was amazing.

Similarly, some people are so weak hu they cannot possibly win, as they fold far far too often

Against a world champion, people would be tighter, so he would have more chance of winning pf and his cbet than you or I

[Percula]

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After a round or two I took note of her play. She did have a nice rush when I sat down so I didn't think to much of it at the time but as the game went on I noticed here play was ATC.

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It is one thing to read hands well in a hand that is observed, it is another thing to do it while playing the hand yourself.

For some people this is a real issue. For others it is a non-issue. I suspect she is in the former grouping.