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#71
02-01-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
[ QUOTE ]
for example I play recreationally and the net of my winning sessions is 8000. The net of my loosing sessions is 11,000. I have an income of 16,000 from a regular job. When filing I would not take the standard deduction. I would claim 8000 in "other income". When taking deductions I would claim 8000 as well as mortgage interest on home, medical bills etc... The end result being I made 24,000 and i'm taking 11,000 in deductions. Is this basicly the idea for a losing rec. gambler with a job and home? Doesn't seem right. Could anyone correct me here? Give some back to a fish. [/ QUOTE ] DO NOT try to deduct gambling loses off income from a regular job. 
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#72
02-01-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
[ QUOTE ]
your mother must be very proud. [/ QUOTE ] She is- are YOU proud of me? Because that's the important consideration.
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#73
02-01-2007, 06:55 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
yea, that's it.
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#74
02-01-2007, 06:59 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
[ QUOTE ]
Russ Fox Session Definition [/ QUOTE ] " The method that I was originally taught was that your play at any one table at any one set of limits is a session. " This is the exact definition of session that I use to this day. If I ever play online, that's what I'm going to do there as well. I'm not going to try to explain to an IRS auditor how I can be playing at a particular site, at numbered tables, and I can't come up with session records. Signing off, Mama's Boy
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#75
02-01-2007, 07:02 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
[ QUOTE ]
I've talked to the IRS- while the rep I spoke to was a little shaky, she basically said that a tournament is a session. A satellite tourney is a separate session from the event you're winning your way into. [ QUOTE ] Under that IRS definition, if an online player stays seated at the same table, then they are still in the same session, correct? [/ QUOTE ] That's how I've read it/interpreted it, from IRS listings and from other CPA's writing on in (including the author of the article I linked to- that author and others have written about this for years. [ QUOTE ] BTW, do you have a link to your article on the definition of a session? [/ QUOTE ] A quick search on the IRS website just now. While you can't find a cut and dried definition (I'm sure they left it vague to avoid creating loopholes), you can extrapolate what a session should be (time/date, length of play, location of session) from putting 2+2 together.... in MY UNPROFESSIONAL NON-LICENSED OPINION. Gambling Income and Expenses http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419.html "All gambling winnings must be reported irrespective as to whether any portion thereof is subject to withholding. in addition, you may be required to pay an estimated tax on your gambling winnings. For information on withholding on gambling winnings, refer to Publication 505, Tax Withholding and Estimated Tax." http://www.irs.gov/publications/p529/ar02.html#d0e2065 "You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your gambling losses and report the difference. You must report the full amount of your winnings as income and claim your losses (up to the amount of winnings) as an itemized deduction. Therefore, your records should show your winnings separately from your losses. " "Your diary should contain at least the following information. The date and type of your specific wager or wagering activity. The name and address or location of the gambling establishment. The names of other persons present with you at the gambling establishment. The amount(s) you won or lost. Proof of winnings and losses. In addition to your diary, you should also have other documentation. You can generally prove your winnings and losses through Form W-2G, Certain Gambling Winnings, Form 5754, Statement by Person(s) Receiving Gambling Winnings, wagering tickets, canceled checks, substitute checks, credit records, bank withdrawals, and statements of actual winnings or payment slips provided to you by the gambling establishment. For specific wagering transactions, you can use the following items to support your winnings and losses. These recordkeeping suggestions are intended as general guidelines to help you establish your winnings and losses. They are not all-inclusive. Your tax liability depends on your particular facts and circumstances. Keno. Copies of the keno tickets you purchased that were validated by the gambling establishment, copies of your casino credit records, and copies of your casino check cashing records. Slot machines. A record of the machine number and all winnings by date and time the machine was played. Table games (twenty-one (blackjack), craps, poker, baccarat, roulette, wheel of fortune, etc.). The number of the table at which you were playing. Casino credit card data indicating whether the credit was issued in the pit or at the cashier's cage. Bingo. A record of the number of games played , cost of tickets purchased, and amounts collected on winning tickets. Supplemental records include any receipts from the casino, parlor, etc. Racing (horse, harness, dog, etc.). A record of the races, amounts of wagers, amounts collected on winning tickets, and amounts lost on losing tickets. Supplemental records include unredeemed tickets and payment records from the racetrack. Lotteries. A record of ticket purchases, dates, winnings, and losses. Supplemental records include unredeemed tickets, payment slips, and winnings statements. " And, the bonus for you illegal income online gambling fans: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p525/ar02.html#d0e7770 "Bribes. If you receive a bribe, include it in your income. " http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=129064,00.html "On June, 13, 2005, in Houston, TX, Robert Angleton was sentenced to 87 months in prison and ordered to pay a $125,000 fine for evading more than $1 million in federal excise taxes on gambling wagers of over $64 million related to his bookmaking business." [ QUOTE ] Our tax CPA pushed back hard when I told him that we needed to report gross wins and losses, and also when I told him that I had >$5,000 in net winnings and no W-2G. [/ QUOTE ] Fire him if he won't do it correctly, as you're requesting. [ QUOTE ] In fact, most casino's do not even allow you to take written notes of your results at the Blackjack table. [/ QUOTE ] I've never been stopped- what regulation are you claiming to refer to, regarding this? [/ QUOTE ] Call the IRS 4 times and you may get 4 different answers. The reason they are shakey is because a poker session has not been defined. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
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#76
02-01-2007, 07:05 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
When I play online my computer and monitor always remain on the same table in my living room, I never change tables.
[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#77
02-01-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
Ok what am i missing here? besides a brain...
How do you seperate the deductions from your losses from the other deductions you would normally take against your job income?
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#78
02-01-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
Disclaimer: I am an attorney, but this is not legal advice, I know nothing about tax law other than my own research, etc. etc. etc. talk to a tax pro...
Russ, [ QUOTE ] Well, I've written an article about what a session is. Although you won't like my conclusions, a tournament is a session. For those who play lots of SNGs, they have lots of sessions. That's the law. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that a 'session' according to the tax code is somewhere between 'time spent sitting down at a table' and a day, most likely the former. However, I disagree with you that an individual sit and go constitutes a session. The reason why I disagree has to do with multitabling. I don't think *anyone* is advocating that somebody 8-tabling cash games is playing 8 different sessions at once. Indeed, that makes no recordkeeping sense even on sites that are supported by PT, much less ones that are not. Walter Lewis, Nelson Rose and every other gambling professional tax writer I've ever heard of basically agrees with the "keep a log book" approach, ie, Excel. But it is reasonably impossible to keep an individual *table* record using Excel on non-PT sites, although you can (and I do) keep track of overall performance using the cashier. The same applies to people playing massive amounts of sit and gos. Certain people I know play upwards of 200 of them a day on a regular basis. That is not, by any reasonable definition, 200 sessions. The IRS (ie, the random individual that's in charge of the hypothetical audit we're talking about) may argue otherwise, but at some point, if this particular issue comes in front of a tax court, the judge *is* reasonably likely to exercise common sense. Additionally, even if you are audited and the auditor takes exception to this definition, you will not go to jail for arguing your point, since it is reasonable and you're not attempting to defraud anyone/did pay your taxes. [ QUOTE ] The IRS has not defined a poker session. As far as I know, there are no hard and fast tax rules regarding reporting wins and loses by session, then having your poker site close down before you can cash out your winnings. [/ QUOTE ] There are. You fill out a form (I don't remember which one offhand) claiming that the site absconded with your money.
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#80
02-01-2007, 07:14 PM
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Re: This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on p
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Our tax CPA pushed back hard when I told him that we needed to report gross wins and losses, and also when I told him that I had >$5,000 in net winnings and no W-2G. He told me that he had never had a client report any gambling winnings unless they were straight from a W-2G. [/ QUOTE ] Wow. Just.....wow. A note to winning poker players: It pays to get a CPA that actually knows what the IRS rules are. Seriously. It's not their ass when the [censored] hits the fan....it's yours. [/ QUOTE ] The letter of the law and reality are two very, very different things. How much money do you owe the government if you had to pay $20 for everytime you jaywalked? $100 everytime you broke the speed limit (even by 1mph)? $300 everytime you didn't come to a 100% complete stop at a stop sign? Show me stories of poker players being audited and sent to prison. Sodomy is a crime in most states, show me porn actors being arrested. Their crimes have been very well documented. Laws and enforcement are two very separate things. I'd much rather have a CPA with real life experience vs. one just out of school who has the whole tax code memorized.
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