Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[ShakeZula06]

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So I can only be proud if it's a result of what I taught him?

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You can be proud of what ever you want. However I may or may not think you have a rational reason to do so. As you pointed out these things come on there own, not from logic. [ QUOTE ]
What if he just has natural talent, then some coach or teacher discovers him in school and develops him? Should I be proud just because I allowed it?

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Interesting question. You certainly had a part in passing down the genes your son has. You played no part in passing down the genes of say, those who shaped western civilization. You only recieved them.

[Darryl_P]

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I already did. Perhaps you missed this post. To recap: "I'm proud to be black" is equally nonsensical as far as the state of the world is (the black guy could've been born white or a giraffe, with the same probability).

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OK good. Thanks for clearing that up. I wish more people had a similarly two-sided philosophy. At least its consistent.

Regarding the roulette question: It boils down to the question of whether or not chance is ultimate. That question has been endlessly debated in SMP and I am clearly in the camp that says chance is not ultimate. I suppose if I were in the other camp, I'd have little choice but to accept what you're saying. So I guess you could say at least I'm consistent also.

Regarding future vs. past generations: Do you think it's wrong to be proud to be the son of a great man? Proud to share his name, his heritage?

Regarding the ruling majority: I agree it's wrong for a government or ruling body to send such a message, but I'm just one person speaking for myself only. I don't think I ever suggested that others should be like me, although I might be trying to suggest there's no shame in it either.

I realize there are plenty of whites who aren't proud to be white. That's their prerogative. I'm still proud even if they aren't.

Besides, I'm not sure whites have any more rights than non-whites, except maybe to the extent that there are currently more whites than non-whites in the more powerful countries. But in a given country like the USA, say, I don't see a white citizen as having more rights than a non-white citizen. Do you?

Maybe it was different in the past, but it's now 2007 and I think we should be addressing the situation as it stands today.

[ed8383]

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Why can't one be proud to be a straight white male

[/ QUOTE ]Because you are the devil and are oppressing the black man??

[Darryl_P]

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You do understand that this is a discussion, right? Or are you just mad cause it's Mickey giving you his opinion?

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OK, I probably took it too personally. Upon rereading I see he probably meant it in a more general sense. My mistake.

[andyfox]

People who say they are proud of being black or gay or _____ are usually members of a group that has traditionally been discriminated against and treated less fairly than other members of society. So their group membership was seen as a negative, and they as an inferior member of society, by the majority of the society that was not black or gay or ______. Thus the assertion of "black is beautiful" or "gay pride" is an anwer, a retort to the majority view (or perceived majority view).

[Mickey Brausch]

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Regarding the roulette question: It boils down to the question of whether or not chance is ultimate. That question has been endlessly debated in SMP and I am clearly in the camp that says chance is not ultimate.

[/ QUOTE ] Excellent. We are now shifting to the next gear.

Do you really think there is any kind of purpose, a plan, anything behind you being here? And I mean specifically you, the being with the conscience of being Darryl P.

If you claim that there is, you should have some inkling as to what that objective involves. (I can't just say there is a pattern in the cards, and then refuse to provide any kind of support for that claim, however tenuous.)

WARNING : This is where religious people start on about "divine plans" for humanity, e.g. we are here to serve the Lord. Do not go down that road, please, because it does not address the question (Why are you, specifically you, here?)...

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Do you think it's wrong to be proud to be the son of a great man? Proud to share his name, his heritage?

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, we (can) feel pride in all that; at least, that's what we believe we are feeling. But, again, when all is said and done, that would be (if we analyze it properly) a foolish feeling.

Whence such pride? It's just a matter of dumb luck that we were born a son to that great man, and not the son to a serial killer.

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I realize there are plenty of whites who aren't proud to be white.

[/ QUOTE ]You're saying this perhaps to mean that there are whites who are somewhat ashamed to be white. Again, this too would be a foolish sentiment. (Yes, yes, I know it exists. Collective guilt or guilt for acts of millenia ago -- such guilt is not new to the human condition.)

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In a given country like the USA, say, I don't see a white citizen as having more rights than a non-white citizen. Do you?

[/ QUOTE ]This is a matter for debate. Yeah, you could be right. Or you could be wrong.

But what's more important is science's inability to define clear demarcations between whites and non-whites! On the contrary, science resolutely knows that it is to the human species' best interest, in our fight for survival in this bacteria-ruled world, to keep mixing up our genes!

Mickey Brausch

[Exsubmariner]

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Dear Bisonbison, I think you should take advantage of the free e-book here. Knowledge is power.

This book makes no argument, it's a digest of anecdotes, unsubstantiated platitudes and appeals to the exact kind of idiotic 'common sense' positions it rails against.

There are legitimate arguments for female areas of power and abuse, but this piece of crap just piles idiotic examples on top of each other.

Feel free to pick a page and I'll be happy to argue about it with you. There are way too many meaningless, illogical, ridiculous or worthless pages for me to pick just one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Page 48 through 51. I think that's a pretty good example.

Did you even read it?

[Darryl_P]

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Do you really think there is any kind of purpose, a plan, anything behind you being here? And I mean specifically you, the being with the conscience of being Darryl P.


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Yes, most definitely! And I also have a pretty good idea of what that is. But if you don't mind I'd rather not lay it all out here on a public forum. Maybe one day over a few drinks with no PC police eavesdropping, ok?

And yes, it does involve God, but it is specific to me nonetheless.

I don't suppose this answer takes us to the next gear, oder?

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You're saying this perhaps to mean that there are whites who are somewhat ashamed to be white. Again, this too would be a foolish sentiment.

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OK good, we are on the same page here.

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But what's more important is science's inability to define clear demarcations between whites and non-whites!

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Someone already mentioned (maybe it was you!?) that there are no clear demarcations between a pile, a mound, and a hill, yet we can still use the terms, usually without confusion.

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it is to the human species' best interest, in our fight for survival ... to keep mixing up our genes!


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I agree, but I'd argue that the mixing should happen much more slowly than is currently the case.

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bacteria-ruled world

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LOL.

[Mickey Brausch]

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[ QUOTE ]
bacteria-ruled world

[/ QUOTE ]LOL

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, it's funny. It's also very true.

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But what's more important is science's inability to define clear demarcations between whites and non-whites!

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone already mentioned that there are no clear demarcations between a pile, a mound, and a hill, yet we can still use the terms, usually without confusion.

[/ QUOTE ] We can use the terms but we do not assign any inherent superiority to neither pile nor hill. And one of the reasons we don't is precisely the lack of clear demarcation between them. How can we say A is "better than" B, when A blurs into B? We sometimes prefer A, and we sometimes prefer B.

We is what is is.

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Do you really think there is any kind of purpose, a plan, anything behind you being here? And I mean specifically you, the being with the conscience of being Darryl P.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, most definitely! And I also have a pretty good idea of what that is. And yes, it does involve God, but it is specific to me nonetheless. I don't suppose this answer takes us to the next gear, oder?

[/ QUOTE ]Well, in every car, no matter how many gears it has, there is a highest gear.

However, this is not it.

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If you don't mind I'd rather not lay it all out here on a public forum. Maybe one day over a few drinks with no PC police eavesdropping, ok?

[/ QUOTE ]Well, I can enjoy my pilsner even with the most tattooed of Magyar mysticists.

Mickey Brausch