Kind of an odd question... PL5CD and game theory

[MarkGritter]

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Mark you are way off.

1) We are INDifferent to Calling or Folding to a player that
bluffs with correct GTF. The EV's are the same.


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Yes, you're right. Once somebody starts bluffing with the game-theoretic frequency then our choice of calling or folding doesn't matter. Calling with the GTF protects us from being exploited by an opponent who deviates from this frequency.

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2) We should call sometimes not to improve our EV (we can't vs perfect GTBF) but to keep our opponents guessing wether we will call or fold in a particular case. Otherwise they, like Murkwa, will makes notes on us.


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I'm not the one insisting we should only use the 50% calling frequency against an optimal bluffer, I think that was Big Limpin or Grifter. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

But, against a tough or unknown opponent we simply don't know whether he is bluffing at an appropriate frequency or not. If we deviate from the game-theoretic optimal calling frequency then there is no guarantee we aren't being outplayed.

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3) .223 should be .333 NO?!?

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Yup, basic math foils me again. Didn't matter because those terms were zero anyway.

[brian1175]

wow this thread is going no where. I say, watch every hand and make notes if people will limp draws and see what they do post...I have seen many poeple limp 2 pair and bet out post....http://www.pokerhand.org/?780463

[kurto]

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wow this thread is going no where. I say, watch every hand and make notes if people will limp draws and see what they do post...I have seen many poeple limp 2 pair and bet out post....http://www.pokerhand.org/?780463

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What I'm saying is the notes aren't enough. If your notes say that someone will "not reraise with weak 2 pair. Plays all draws. -- will bet in position with weak hands (AA-weak 2 pair) if checked to. Capable of a variety of bluffs." (as I have many such notes)

If I open with 101055x... they call. I draw 1 and they draw 1.

If I bet, they're not calling with many hands that I beat. This person will occasionally reraise with a weaker hand. Will definitely reraise with any hand that beats me.

If they played a draw- they will definitely bet if they get there. They will occasionally bet with nothing.

Essentially, this is a tricky player and MY best play then becomes game theory based, no?

I think I wrote earlier that most people who open-raise then draw 1 have 2 pair or a set. But most do NOT reraise with just 2 pair. So my notes usually only help me when they draw 1 if they came in before me OR if they're drawing 1 so often and I see a lot of showdowns that I can more heavily weigh their 1 draw as a come draw.

[Pat_Flush...Draw]

Hello gentlemen

Was happy to discover your community on PL5CD. In Europe, 5CD on PL and NL is far more popular than it is in the US. I’ve been playing live for many years and online for 2 years. I've discovered that PS offers PL5CD recently.
I'm very surprised the way the average players play. It is completely different from the way they play on 24H poker, poker Heaven or other "european" sites. U guys should definitely try those sites.

All your posts are interesting but it's funny that very few of them insists on the importance of position. Position is a key issue in 5CD.

Regarding bluff on busted come hands, just remind that the odd of being dealt 2 pairs or better is 12 to 1 so after 4 rounds, you should be able to spot the guys who play come hands...

The best way to fight bluffs is to avoid situations where you might face a bluff :-)

Lot of horrible players raises open on EP with come hands. When you spot one and have position on him, you should do a pot sized reraise with any 2 pairs or better fold with less than that. Most of the time the opener will fold. If he calls, draws one and bets ; you should fold less than j's up.

You raise open with Aces or Kings in MP, you have a caller in LP. You draw 3, he draws 1. You check and he bets. Even if you suspect a possible bluff, don’t waste your money and fold. You are 3 to 1 to improve , make a pot sized reraise in that case.

Beleive me, on the long run, this strategy is a winning one.

[kurto]

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Lot of horrible players raises open on EP with come hands.

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Is this how European players play? I haven't really seen any players opening with draws in EP yet.

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All your posts are interesting but it's funny that very few of them insists on the importance of position. Position is a key issue in 5CD.


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I agree with this. Sometimes I sigh when I have aces UTG because I hate my position so much but have to play it.