BLACKJACK PROBLEM!!!!

[grmpyolmn]

I have the same problem with video poker machines. The only way I can think of is to avoid them all together. Haven't been able to do that yet.

[noggindrill]

count cards

[bellatrix]

Well, considering you are spending way to much time at the Blackjack table, you should really learn to beat it. As soon as you start playing BJ professionally and get pit heat, you'll soon NOT want to keep playing BJ. Why do you think so many former Blackjack APs are now poker players? Any monkey can learn to count cards. Go get Professional Blackjack by Wong or Knock-Out Blackjack by Fuchs and Vancura and don't play until you have learned them. If you don't have the discipline to beat the game, then you don't belong in a casino.

How did you learn to beat poker? Ah, it didn't all come to you? You actually read some books? Interesting. Now, why can't you apply that principle to blackjack?

[omaha]

Thanks for the reply jorge, at least you know basic strat!

Okay, so the problem is your betting, and escalation of bets.

I think, firstly, that you are vastly more intelligent than me. You are a winning high stakes poker player, and i am a winning very low stakes poker player.

Just apply one one hundreth of your poker talents, into the bankroll management that you do in poker, into bj.

Check out gambling theory and other topics by mason. It has a br section on bj

In summary, if your average bet size is $25, and your win rate is

.2%, your roll is $34k
.5% your roll is $13k
1% your roll is 6.8k

If you are a losing player, then the higher roll and much lower limits would be better.

I still kinda cant put my finger on your problem, so Ill throw a curve ball at you, which you probably dont wish to hear.

Have you read any of the sharemarket trading books by Dr Alex elder? Trading 4 a living, etc?

Basically, he is a russian psychiatrist, who explains the sharemarket under the mind (psychology) method (trading ie when to go long/short, close positions, etc) and the money (managing your roll)

The psychology section is a must read, and he has many examples which will reverberate with ALL poker players. The tilt, the tilt, the denial, the vig, the negative sum game.

He talks about the massive similarities between the thought processes of alcoholics (and, losing poker/bj players) and the time he would lose money in the market. He changed his philosophy os THINKING, which helped him immensely.

He also relates a few stories on SELF SABOTAGE, where we subconciously deliberately set ourselves up repeatedly for failure in life.

WHy? Well, he gives the examples of someone finally becoming their own boss, buying a truck, and totalling it without insurance in the first week.

A woman remarries for the fourth time a violent alcoholic husband.

Most interestingly, he had the story of a market player, who would make a bucketload of money of the stockmarket in the first hour, then give it all back with interest over the next few hours.



The stock market dude is the most interesting case of self sabotage that i hadnt thought of. He was trading stocks that moved quickly out of the gate, and based his thought processes on news, earnings, speculation, etc. Problem was, he had no advantage after the initial surge.

Why?

Well, the truck driver wanted the security of a regular paycheck, and

the woman wanted to feel as though she could change her man, and get heaps of sympathy from everyone for her suffering.

and the stock market fellow had it drummed into him by his immigrant father that one had to work long, hard hours. Unfortunately for him, his only advantage was in the first hour, and he was a dog after that!

He also quotes many stories of people not being able to emotionally able to cope with pulling money out of 'thin air'. As a poker player, you do not build a wooden table and sell it, nor do you perform services that most of the populartion would find exciting and rewarding, like open heart surgery or being an astronaut. You, (through your skill, basically set out to deliberately fleece your fellow humans) apply your advantage, and (seemingly) pull money out of thin air, just like the stockmarket guy.

I think there is quite possibly the self sabotage factor. How do you feel about being a pro gambler? I found out a long time ago, if you go looking for self esteem on the poker table, you will wind up broke and hugely tilted.

SO, if you can figure out why you feel that you dont deserve the $ you earn (through your skill and expertise at the table), then you may just find that you will be able to accept the fact that you DO deserve to earn and KEEP the $ from the poker table.

As a poker player, consider the advantages that you provide to society.

You directly employ the dealers, the floor pit, and the janitor. The sexy waitresses would be out on the street, instead they just have to smile and bring you a drink.

Indeed, you even provided and paid for the mortgage of the guy that laid the carpet on the casino floor a decade ago.

You provide a massive amount of entertainment for the donks, and they are willing to pay you dearly for it. WHy do people sit down and play jenny harman and doyle brunson in cash games? Its for the brag factor, more than anything else. Would you really go into a boxing ring with mike tyson???????

You provide a huge revenue for the state and federal governments by way of their taxation. THis allows them to build more schools, hospitals, and roads, all of which benefit society greatly


Best piece of advice in this forum i ever read was the HALT factor, dont play when you are Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
r3vbr, thanks for the suggestion, but I am trying to stop playing BJ completely, I don't want to learn how to beat it. I would love it if I could get to the point where I never played another pit game for the rest of me life, thats the goal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really like the ups and downs of gambling. But when playing winning poker I'm willing to suffer through them knowing that in the long run I'm trending up. So, it's bad enough having to suffer that emotional whipsaw but to pay the damn Casino for the privalege of doing it is just nuts. That's essentially what I'm doing if I play House Games.

If I'm betting $50/hand, -1% edge, 200 hands an hour at blackjack I'm losing at a rate of $100/hr. That's what I'm paying the Casino for the privalege of feeling lousy a good part of the time after I'm done. Playing 50-100 live holdem I fight tooth and nail to maybe achieve a $100/hr win rate. And here I am at the blackjack table just pissing away that earn?

Playing a hand of -EV Blackjack, or making a bet on any House Game, makes about as much sense as raising under the gun with 7,2 offsuit. I wouldn't do one. Why should I do the other.

PairTheBoard

[Friedrich888]

increasing the bets is the problem. I bet if you only played $5 every hand you wouldn't have started this thread. I find that my typical variance with flat betting is about 10-12 bets up or down within an hour.

[reddred]

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you, b/c the GA thing is going to be about quitting ALL gambling, which is going to hurt your $ flow. It would be like going to NA and saying help me get off coke, but I still want to smoke weed.

I'm curious as to how you could have the discipline required to playing winning poker at 50/100, but can't stop yourself from throwing $ away at the blackjack table as your returning from the bathroom????
I guess i just don't get the allure of BJ. It's SOOO boring, IMHO, and never yielded any kind of winning pattern for me the times I've played. Every time, I get hammered by the house, so that was enough negative conditioning for me to never play again. If I wasn't a winning poker player, I guess I wouldn't play that either. Losing is no fun.

[iggymcfly]

How much do you typically bet when you play blackjack? Playing while you wait for a seat or something really wouldn't be that big of a leak if the stakes you were playing for weren't too high. The other question is why?

If it was just waiting for a seat, that would be one thing, but the coming back from the bathroom thing really sounds like an addiction though in that you could be playing poker at the casino, but are choosing to play blackjack instead because you prefer it. Is it because you're bored from sitting around waiting and are looking for some action? Is this the kind of thing that would otherwise express itself in you playing more hands at the table, etc.?

I've got some compulsive gambling tendencies myself so I can sympathize to some extent. Maybe you should just bring an iPod with you to the casino, so you don't get bored so easily. The "waiting for a seat" one's tough because you really have nothing to do and are just sitting around waiting, but you should be able to overcome the bathroom, after session stuff, etc.

[Jorge V]

Omaha, thanks, that was the best advice anyone has ever given me. I will definitely look into the books you recommended. You gave me tons of things to think about that I have never really thought of before in my poker career. As for my career as a gambler, I am not sure how I feel about it. Obviously, I never would have envisioned myself doing this 5 years ago; it was just something that gradually happened until I got to the point where I was making enough to support myself fulltime. Even though I "feel" I work hard at my job and put in a lot of hours, there is a sense that the money comes very easily and maybe I don't really deserve it. As most, if not all gamblers, I have little regard for money which, in ways, helps me be successful at the poker table because I rarely tilt or steam when taking a beat because I don't think of the money the way others do. This trait also hurts me when it comes to BJ because I was able to lose large amounts of money over time without it making a big impact on my financial situation; however, it now makes me sick just thinking about how much those numbers have accumulated. I have never had a "real" job and wonder how I would handle my money if I worked "hard" for it. I still haven't found the answer,(although I was able to put in a 10-hour session of poker tonight without playing BJ!!!) but you have given me lots to think about, not only in regards to BJ, but my life in general. I thank you for that.

Jorge

[Jorge V]

iggymcfly, my betting, when it comes to BJ is all over the place. I usually start out betting 25-100, but the problem is it gets out of hand when I lose a few hands in a row and start going crazy with my bets. It sounds like an addiction because it is and that is why I am desperately trying to stop. I am not really sure what it is that makes me play BJ, it just happens and its like I don't even realize what I am doing, its pretty sick. Maybe its my way of not going on tilt at the table, I don't know. Its funny that you brought up the iPod because there was a rule forbidding iPod use at the table until just recently so maybe that will help, as I used it the whole session that I played in tonight. Thanks for your help.

Jorge