is this cheating?

[.Alex.]

[ QUOTE ]
induce young players to my left to spy my holecards

[/ QUOTE ]
For me, this is the key to the question. Do they still have to go out of their way to see the hole cards? If not, if you're showing them so blatantly that they would have to deliberately avoid looking at them not to see them, then I believe you are being unethical. Under these condtions, they are not doing anything wrong because you are responsible for protecting your cards. You are manipulating 'honest' people in a way that is not expected by them and not accepted in terms of poker etiquette (as opposed to something like lying about your hand).

I am not sure it would be "cheating" though. I think the proper term for this is "angle shooting." In other word, something unethical but not explicitly prohibited.

However, if the player leans over or just stares in your direction for an extended period of time to get a better chance to view the cards, then he is definitely cheating, which significatly decreases how unethical your action is.

[Hornacek]

limon, 100% awesome.

(goes back to refraining from posting)

[limon]

when your cards come to you you check them very quickly 1 at a time. then if you have a good hand to falsify you set them the way you want them and show them to your mark. you set the "real" card on bottom aand show it full on. you obscure the topcard in a way to make it appear as you want then you bet in accordance w/ the hand shown. if you have J7 but show it as JJ you raise so your mark can deduce you have JJ. this will create alot of odd situations. it is very important you watch the mark at all times because he will be "out of his element" and will give you alot of genuine expression.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
2+2 should start a "adult" (for lack of a better term) forum. maybe 5 years or 5000 posts for entry? or maybe you have to apply for membership w/ a strategy post that current members vote on...anyway, just from day one it will be understood that no one cares about your BR or latest exploits at 300-600 or who you want to challenge in heads up match we just care about the finer points of poker (all games)and general life advantage play. maybe something like the sklansky forum. i have alot of good stuff to talk about but im fairly sure ill get nothing good in return from the forum as it is now. it can be the crumudgeon forum and will gain new relevence as many of the "this is what i do but im not sure why but i won 100k last month so i must be right" crowd has to reenter the casino and deal w/ us fossils.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limon I really hope this forum is close enough to your requests to get you posting lots.

D

[PartyGirlUK]

Limon do you have any good stories to tell? i.e. did you ever make AA look like A4 and get someone too bluff of all their chips to you, or make a hero call with 5th pair and look astonished and crestfallen when u flipped over the nuts? Has anyone ever caught on to what you were doing and managed to "reverse-hustle" you? What would you think if they did?

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
when your cards come to you you check them very quickly 1 at a time. then if you have a good hand to falsify you set them the way you want them and show them to your mark. you set the "real" card on bottom aand show it full on. you obscure the topcard in a way to make it appear as you want then you bet in accordance w/ the hand shown. if you have J7 but show it as JJ you raise so your mark can deduce you have JJ. this will create alot of odd situations. it is very important you watch the mark at all times because he will be "out of his element" and will give you alot of genuine expression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.

On a side note, how cool is it that prolific posters like limon, SpicyF and others are posting here in full force?

Good work masked man.

[ImAKing]

sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get the advantage

[AL5AcE]

This is awesome. Unless like someone said above that if you blatantly show your cards to the opponent then it's cheating, but if it's subtle then it's not. You should post some interesting hands that resulted when you were doing this!

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
im sort of a lanky dude so i like to sit in seat 5, all things being equal, (nobody i NEED to be to the left of) so i can slouch a little anb get some legroom. many years ago in a regular game i played i noticed a guy who was peeking over my shoulder to spot my holcards when i checked them w/ one hand. instead of stopping him i went home and w/ the help of a friend perfected giving false holecards to the dude. i can make A4 look like AA, J7 look like JJ and many others. well, needless to say, i really beat up on the peakaboo guy for a while. i dont know if he wised up or just gave up after spying my holecards dozens of different times only to be wrong at showdown. heres the possible cheating part...nowadays when i get bored i purposely induce young players to my left to spy my holecards and give them falsies to keep myself entertained. i spent so much time perfecting the skill i dont want to give it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people are being too easy on you here. This is probably cheating or at least close to it. Say you thought the person behind you played very badly whenever he saw your cards. E.g., you know that he will frequently try to bluff you with all his chips whenever he knows you have only one pair. Would it be ok to selectively "accidentally" show him your hand in order to induce those kinds of mistakes? This would definitely be violating the rules in most cardrooms. More importantly, put yourself in your opponent's shoes, you probably wouldn't want other people to share card information, even if it was to help the sharer get an edge, b/c it would put you at a disadvantage wrt the sharee.

Now I don't see how it's much different in your situation. You are still giving another player at the table information about your hand that you aren't giving other players. Sure you are giving some bad info as well, but that good info may be plenty to give the person an edge against the rest of the players at the table, especially in hands that you fold. E.g., you show your J7 and your mark sees the Jh (but thinks you have jacks). Now say the flop comes out A-high and you get knocked out. In a lot of situations, just knowing that the Jh has been folded may give him a good edge against the other players.

So basically you're doing something against the rules, that you wouldn't want other people doing, that puts everyone at the table at a disadvantage, in order to gain an edge for yourself. What do we call that?

[guids]

No not cheating at all imo. I have trouble with ethics in this regard. The only reason I play poker is to make money, I am basically of the school, do whatever you have to to outsmart, and make more money off the other guy.