Me bad or bad session

vgj_felix · #1 01-29-2007, 02:21 PM

I posted earlier on today about getting some good literature and support for cash room games. I had a look at some stuff and felt pretty confident of a good session. 90 minutes later I'm $20 less well off. What I want to know is is it me playing very badly or just not getting the rub of the felt.

After about 15 minutes I was $3 down. I'd raised preflop three times with good hands in position, made continuation bets and got re-raised on all of them (I'd pretty much missed the flop but the texture was ok on them). Well that was annoying to begin with. Could people just be flopping monsters all the time? It seemed to be the case because for the next 40 hands or so I was raising and not getting called much pre-flop and most were folding to bets I made on the flop. Notably again I hardly ever hit the flop and I didn't hit it hard once. I remember that because throughout all this I didn't play any big pots when I had any sort of big hand.

Then comes this hand: The BB ends up having QJ
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($0.75, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.9, BB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2.55, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2.55, 2 players)
BB bets $0.4, Hero raises to $3.75, BB calls all-in $0.8.
Uncalled bets: $2.55 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $4.95

The argument may have been to bet on the turn too but if I had even if he had called or re-rasied I would have had to bet on the river or call his turn raise.

Very next hand is this: button has JJ
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.35, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.85, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, Button calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2.55, 2 players)
Hero bets $2.9, Button calls all-in $2.85.
Uncalled bets: $0.05 returned to Hero.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($8.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $8.25)

Results:
Final pot: $8.25

Again, rather annoying that the flop gives me such a huge piece of it and he calls pre-flop and flop bet so I can't really put him on that hand. If he's not so short stacked I don't push.

As a short stack with 77 I push against a raise that calls with JJ.

Meanwhile, in a second room. I miss a number of draws on the river to lose about $2. And then this hand: other guy has 62

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($0.35, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($0.35, 3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, UTG+1 folds, Button calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($1.05, 2 players)
Hero bets $1.05, Button raises to $2.1, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $5.25

I know I played this had wrong. Could have squeezed pre-flop, should have defaintely bet on the flop. Still, I don't enjoyed getting five-outed and then crushed on the river.

In another hand I have A9 on the button, raise it, get called. Flop is A72, I bet and someone just goes all in. His comment is why do you keep betting with sh*t. I feel compelled to say 'because I'm trying to play the game properly' but I know it's not going to do me any good.

Now short stacked again. The final nail in the coffin is this hand: other player has 99 with a spade.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.35, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.8, 2 players)
SB is all-in $7.8, Hero calls all-in $2.4.
Uncalled bets: $5.4 returned to SB.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($5.6, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $5.6)

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($5.6, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $5.6)

Results:
Final pot: $5.6

In total these hands cost me $17 of the $20 I lost.

My personal belief is that I played a couple wrong (A5 inparticular) and the rest I was just unlucky, but some brutally so. I had absolutely no hands in the session where I was able to get a lot of money into the pot when I had the nuts or a strong hand.

Advice would be very greatful as I'm on the verge of giving up cash rooms as a minefield of maniacs and sngs corpses.

Felix

Vyse · #2 01-29-2007, 02:33 PM

Q4 hand: Fold preflop unless you have a read that the blinds are weak. Even then I'll probably fold it. That's way too loose.

Flop: Why bet so big? Make it one of your standard cbets so you have some hand consistency.

Turn:: I have no idea why you are checking. I rarely check two pair at this level. Push him all in since his stack is apparently low.

AT hand: Why are you overbetting on the turn? I don't understand. I hope this isn't a habit -- you betting the pot every step of the way with your good hands. Potting the flop isn't optimal either -- I would 3/4 it. Again, the key is firing your standard cbet you do with any hand.

A5 hand: Bet the flop.

Turn: I would be very careful since it's highly likely some random has a 6. Check the river. Call a smallish bet or fold.

KT hand: I usually fold that push on the flop. It's often top pair or two pair trying to protect their hand but with still 4 to a flush, and I like to pick better spots than that, esp since you don't have even one spade.

You played a lot of hands wrong, mainly by OVERPLAYING. You need to work on your betsizing. I raise 4xBB x 1 for every limper preflop, and raise 5xBB UTG to help counteract poor position. I will 3/4 or pot the flop as my cbet, no matter if my hand is very strong or non-existent. Then, if that's called, you start to play poker. You're just overplaying your hands. Play straightforward (i.e. never slow play).

Messy Harry · #3 01-29-2007, 02:34 PM

"Advice would be very greatful as I'm on the verge of giving up cash rooms as a minefield of maniacs and sngs corpses."

This seriously cracked me up!

Not winning right away after just starting out is common. Welcome to poker. Even when you play well, you don't always win.

I'll offer some feedback on the first hand: Q,4. I don't think this is a raising hand just because it is folded to you. This is a folding hand. If you raise this hand..or this type of weak hand, you will continue to lose more money down the road.

That being said, you got a lucky flop. Checking the turn here is asking for trouble...and you got trouble on the river and then you put too much in on the river when there was a good chance you were beat with 4 to a straight and several broadway type cards that your opponent likely called your raise with, and therefore you were beat by the straight or had your 2 pair counterfeited. Play strongly when you are most likely ahead. Don't check strong, but vulnerable hands.

Good luck.

MyNameIsSamSnead · #4 01-29-2007, 02:35 PM

Hand 1: Its ok to fold this preflop. You had a nice flop and an unfortunate turn....it happens.
Hand 2: You played this fine.
Hand 3: You should have bet the flop to see where you are.
Hand 4: It happens. You have to be careful when getting into pots with weak aces.
Hand 5: This is atrocious. You cannot call and all in here with TPGK and no spade, especially since it is such a small pot. A huge overbet like this usually means a high spade, or it could even be two pair.

You really need to be careful when playing Ax. When you have weak kickers and proceed through the hand like you have the nuts, this type of thing happens. Just because you have a pair, it does not lock up the hand for you.

Also....reload.

MyNameIsSamSnead · #5 01-29-2007, 02:38 PM

Also...it's important to notice that on every hand except the last (which you should not have even considered calling)....you are getting all of your money in with the worst hand. Eventually, seemingly far, far, far down the line, you will develop a sense of when you are ahead and when you are behind, when a bet from an opponent seems out of place, when you need to put the brakes on and when you need to get the money in fast.

RollTide77 · #6 01-29-2007, 02:40 PM

Hand 1: I wouldn't play this hand. I know you were passed to on the button but this is a super weak hand. Your 4 is useless and your Q is beaten by anyone with a K or A or Q with better kicker assuming you pair it.

Hand 2: I would have feared the straight on this one but probably would have made the call as well. Just a bad break.

Hand 3: You have got to lead the flop. Your Ace is weak so you need to fish out the other Aces or sets. You're in the BB on this one but normally don't play this hand unless its suited.

Hand 4: Don't go AI with only TPGK against a flushed board.

The main problem is that you value having one pair too much and like the person said...you're playing aggressive with junk. Read the sticky posts in this forum on what hands you should be playing and when. Another problem is that you are playing short stacked so people are tempted to go AI with you and bully you around. You need to reload and play with a full stack. I almost don't want to say that though b/c you are still learning and are probably going to lose more during this period so just be careful.

Vyse · #7 01-29-2007, 02:43 PM

Def read EVERYTHING in the Essentials, then re-read it again a couple of weeks, and then again... you'll understand it better and better. Watch videos of players like iStrong. You'll see what you're doing wrong.

EDIT: Don't expect to win immediately. Rarely happens. Expect to lose a couple of hundred before you win. Learning lessons. You can lessen that by getting PT + PAHUD and training yourself.

winterGT · #8 01-29-2007, 03:01 PM

1: Q4 playing bad hands is -EV at 10NL
2: standard
3: 77 don't shove over a PFR with 77.. most of these guys have tiny PFR% (so they only raise premiums)
4: Actually, c/c this down is fine, although nothing wrong with betting flop or turn. River PSB is total spew, then calling raise ugh.
5: fold. The worst he has is TP and you don't have a great kicker. If I have AK I might call.

vgj_felix · #9 01-29-2007, 06:40 PM

Thanks for all the comments so far. I best mention a few things.

I've been playing SNGs at low stakes for six months and have made $500 profit so I know I'm capable of at least playing the game to some degree. When I switched to cash rooms I also had success early on, making about $150, but that profits down to about $50 now. Now onto the hands.

For all the people saying I was betting too much. The reason being was because the first three times I'd made 2/3 cbets I'd be re-raised so I made an adjustment to pot betting which seemed to be working for 30-40 hands. In general I've found this in micro rooms. People will call with anything if the bet is less than pot. I'll keep an eye for this in my next sessions.

The Q4 hand is an interesting one. Usually I would never even think about playing this one but a couple of factors made me play it.

1. It was folded around to me. Although this is not exactly a reason.
2. I hadn't played a hand for 2/3 cycles and they'd both been tight folding to my button raise a couple of times.

I know preflop that's a bad move, but ignoring that for the moment I flopped two pair. I bet it big because the hand was very vulnerable, as it turned out. I didn't want to see a turn card. When it came I was concerned. Then he bet $0.40 on the river which just made no sense what so ever. I mean, I could have had the straight so when I stuck him all in I wanted to represent strength. Would you have checked two pair on the turn with QJK on the board and then bet $0.40 when a 9 shows up to reveal all sorts of straights? I guess he was trapping. Risky trap on his part.

In the AT hand again the button is very tight. Top pair top kicker on a very dry board looks good to me. The pot is $2.50 when the turn comes a blank and look at his stack $2.80. He's pretty much committed and I'm confident I have the best hand. I decided to apply the pressure thinking I had the best hand with 10 outs to improve (another A, 10 or 2 for a wheel. With it being the very next hand after the Q4 episode perhaps I was a bit tilty. Even so I think I was unlucky to get a good flop against a hand that fractionally beats me.

With the 77s I just shoved it all in because I had about $2 left and wasn't going to rebuy. I didn't think there was much point trying play poker with no stack. I would either double up or go bust. No complaints I guess.

Finally the K10 hand was a read on the player hand. When I mentioned about getting A9, raising pre-flop, getting called, flopping an Ace, making a bet and getting reraised all in. The player had said 'why do you keep betting with [censored]'. I sensed he was going to do the same thing and he did any sort of hand and he did with 99s. I kinda guessed he had a spade but I was almost certain I was ahead. And I was right. The odds were in my favour 1.3/1 and he was about 2/1 underdog. Being short stacked I was prepared to gamble. So I made the right read and lost the race.

This is all good stuff for me to study though. Many thanks and I will read all the forum posts.

Angrymoog · #10 01-29-2007, 09:24 PM

Felix,

Others have provided their qualified opinions, so I won't focus on the hands. What I will focus on is the importance that you, an aspiring(winning) player, be able to critically evaluate yourself. You should be open minded as to the opinions of others, who might criticize some of the decisions you make.

I think your mindset with regard to your results in sng's will make it difficult for you, because you don't like the idea that there might be a chance you have a great deal of room for improvement.(as do we all) I think at least part of you probably suspects you might be making mistakes, as evidenced by your making this post.

I wish you luck, and hope you continue to utilize the extensive resources offered by this community to improve your understanding of the g.ame.