Need advisement on adjusting game to table read.

[BEEK]

I'm having a hard time pinning down what people are technically: tight, aggressive, etc,. If I ask one person they'll say: "what are they playing with preflop; another will say it is dependent upon whether they stay in 'til latter streets, and still others judge tightness on whether or not they'll cap a round. Or a combination thereof.

I've read what the books say and not all are very clear as to what is occurring when with what level of hands/cards. Why is there no common evaluation (at least at the lower limit levels)?

What is the right answer?? What is the best way to assess players at a table??

Thx

[Mhoram]

I'll do my best.

I'm going to assume this is a 9 handed table. If it's online you can consider buying a program like Poker Tracker to tell you these things, but it does cost money and won't help you if you're playing live.

Loose and Tight are the terms we use to describe the % of hands a player chooses to play. Rule of thumb is that 20 to 25% is about right. Over 25% is considered loose, under 20% is considered tight.

Figuring out if a player is tight or loose is important mainly because it allows you to narrow down the types of hands they could possibly hold at any given time. Someone playing 20% has a very predictable range of hands, it lets you rule out a lot of hands that this type of player would just fold. This would seem to give the loose player an advantage as you can never be sure what he has. The equalizer is that the tight player will usually be in the hand with stronger cards than the loose player (although don't forget, the loose player gets dealt AA just as often as everyone else.)

This is why we feel it's so important to figure out if a player is tight or loose and to what degree. Now the problem becomes, how do you determine this? You can't just sit and count how many hands each player plays or folds, that's a waste of your time. What you can do is just notice the players who seem to be in the pot more often than others, playing every couple of pots. Unless he's just on a rush of cards, he's probably a looser player by nature. Oppositely, a player that you hardly notice, that only plays one or maybe two hands per round is probably a pretty tight player by nature (although he could just be running cold.) You really have to spend atleast a couple hours with a player before you can start to feel confident in this information and start making decisions based on it.

One last way to figure this out is to pay attention to the cards a player showsdown. If a player goes to showdown with Q9 suited that's very strong evidence he's a loose player. A 20 to 25% player will just throw that away 99% of the time, they won't see any value in it. If the only hands a player showsdown are hands like AK, QQ, JT suited, he's probably a tighter player, but a loose player would play these too, so that assumption is a little less valid.

Check out this site to start getting an idea of the types of hands a tight or loose player is likely to play, and good luck.

http://tworags.com/index.php?ACTION=...view&ID=82

[Skleice]

I just pay strong attention to every hand and the betting that goes on. Without seeing a showdown, first I notice the frequencey of hands that a player plays. Are they involved in most of the hands? Are they raising them or just passively calling? Seeing somebody involved in a couple of hands in a row doesn't show much, they could've just caught a couple of nice hands. But, if they are involved in 4 or 5 pots in a row and are active in each, I'm getting suspicious. Finally, when is a showdown I see what the person was playing with and review the hand. Did they raise, call, bet out on the flop...etc? When I deduce the basic way they are playing, I try to use it against them.

I hate getting involved in a big hand when I first sit down at a table. I'd like to see a few rounds before I have a big decision to make. For example, say I flop top pair with a decent kicker and I bet out. My opp. comes over the top with a huge raise...what now? Does he have a good hand, or is he trying to push me off with nothing? If I'd seen him play a few rounds, I would be much more comfortable.

[Small Fry]

Tight vs loose is laid out pretty good for you above. There's also verying degrees of both.

There's also passive vs aggressive. How often does a person raise vs. call.

There's also tricky vs. straight forward. Does he like to check raise with any pair or just a draw? Does he bet if a scare card falls? Or does he only bet if he's got at least top pair and will check call with all draws.

All these things help you determine a range of hands a player might hold and how he might act or react to your actions and the cards on the board.

What you might notice is that it takes pretty much a combination of preflop, flop, turn and river before you can put all this together. And it takes a lot of hands, I'd say several hundred minimum, to make sure your read is fairly accurate.

If you play online I'd recommend Pokertracker. If you play live and face the same people a lot, then take notes. Get up from the table every so often and jot some stuff down, don't do it at the table.

[EdmondDantes]

Beek,

I originally compiled the hand range charts referenced above to do what you're doing--that is, attempt to get some sense of what guys were playing. I think they're a good starting point (ok, I'm somewhat biased), but since poker's situational, you'll need to make adjustments based on your observations.

For example, your opponent likely has a wider range in late position (playing Q9, for example, from the button but folding it in early position), he could be on a heater, he could be playing on another player's perceived strength or weakness, etc. I would echo that you should pay attention to hands shown down, noting the POSITION he's playing them from and to what action, as you're trying to determine his range.

FWIW, here's what I try to do

1) Review the charts to remind myself of various ranges (away from the table, obv);

2) Observe my opponent's VP$IP, either via PokerTracker or live observation ("He's played 5 hands per orbit for the last hour");

3) Pay attention to the quality or crap he's showing down, making mental notes of his position and what he did with the hand pre-flop;

4) Observe how often he's playing the SB;

5) Adjust depending on table size; and

6) Use my judgment.

Example: if I see a guy playing about 4 hands per orbit and showing down JTo from early position or raising with A8s from middle position, I conclude he's on a pretty wide range and act accordingly. Similarly, if I see a guy rarely enter pots and show down JJ from the blinds, having called a middle position raise (and not re-raised) pre-flop, I'd conclude he's probably pretty tight and respect a subsequent re-raise from him pre-flop.

Couple of other things to remember…

Completing from the small blind will add 10% to the hand range % at a full (10-handed) table; 16% at a 6-handed table.

Also, remember that there are 169 poker hands, but those hands can be dealt 1,326 ways in total. AKo, for example, can be dealt 12 ways, while AA can be dealt only 6 ways, and AKs can only be dealt 4 ways. Adding suited connectors, for example, boosts his range less than adding unsuited connectors. Simply put, if he's playing unsuited connectors and Ax hands, his range is pretty wide.

If I'm in tournaments with aggressive blind structures, I pay attention to who's repeatedly raising from late position and who isn't. I also note the range of hands with which other players call PF all-ins. The guy who calls two 10 BB all-ins with KQo is worth noting. As is, the guy who types in "I folded QQ" into the chat box.

Finally, I try to remember that LAGs get premium hands, too. Sometimes that guy you've seen playing T9o from early position gets rockets!

Hope this helps.

Edmond

[BEEK]

Wow. Outstanding! That was what I was needing.

I was piecing together some of it, but clearly that helps make a more complete thought.

Thank you all. Again, great stuff!