Home game All-in Question.

[gettym]

Blinds 100/200. Player A raises to 1000, B pushes allin for 1500 total, what actions are Player C restricted to? Can he raise? Can he go allin? Can he only minraise? Can he only call?

I had this comeup in a tourney and 2 ppl fought over what the answer was, one guy said MINRAISE Only, and the other said the only raise he can make is an ALLIN raise. Thanks.

[nowags]

He can bet as much as he wants to "over the top" of the all in guy. he has to at least double the all in though.

[MDoranD]

Since the initial raise was t800 more or t1000 total, and the allin was not at least twice that..i.e. t1600 more or t1800 total, then Player C can only call the t1600...he cannot raise.

If the all in raise had been at least the size of the initial raise, Player C could raise as much as he wanted, as long as it was at least the size of the allin raise, or allin himself...whichever he hits first.

[psandman]

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Since the initial raise was t800 more or t1000 total, and the allin was not at least twice that..i.e. t1600 more or t1800 total, then Player C can only call the t1600...he cannot raise.

If the all in raise had been at least the size of the initial raise, Player C could raise as much as he wanted, as long as it was at least the size of the allin raise, or allin himself...whichever he hits first.

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This is incorrect. Player C has not yet acted. The aallin that was less than a minimum raise does not foreclose action by a player who has not yet acted on the last full bet.

Now if player C calls the $1,500 when the action gets back to player A Player A may not raise, he may only call or fold.

[ThinkQuick]

psandman is correct and I sure hope that you just simply didn't read the OP correctly Doran because you are bothersomely wrong

[Lottery Larry]

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psandman is correct and I sure hope that you just simply didn't read the OP correctly Doran because you are bothersomely wrong

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That's how I read it- MDoran was thinking about Player A's possible action in a pot-limit or no-limit game (and MD would then be correct, if no one else raised. MDoran would NOT be correct for a limit tourney, since the half-raise is considered a live raise).

The only variation possible for Player C in this scenario is how much he is REQUIRED to raise. Some places say that Player C must at least complete the raise (to T1800) if raising.

Other places say that Player C's minimum raise is to T2300 (the min required raise amount based on Player A's legitimate T800 raise, on top of Player B's all-in total which doesn't count for raising purposes)

I'm not sure if any NL rules require you to double the all-in amount (T1500) as a minimum (making the min raise to T3000 for Player C)

[psandman]

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I'm not sure if any NL rules require you to double the all-in amount (T1500) as a minimum (making the min raise to T3000 for Player C)

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I am aware of a small number of casinos that use the rule that the minimum NL raise must be double what the previous total bet (not just the raise) was. In those rooms I would expect that the Minimum Raise C could make would be to $3,000. However this is a non-standard rule so who knows what other non-standard rules these rooms are using.

[Lottery Larry]

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I am aware of a small number of casinos that use the rule that the minimum NL raise must be double what the previous total bet (not just the raise) was.

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I had a nagging feeling that I'd read about this before. Thanks for the confirmation.

Personally, I'm a "complete the valid raise amount" person.

[Lottery Larry]

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2 ppl fought over what the answer was, one guy said MINRAISE Only, and the other said the only raise he can make is an ALLIN raise. Thanks.

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BOTH were wrong, unless Player C had less than T2300 (depending on the min. raise rule they are using)

[Zetack]

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2 ppl fought over what the answer was, one guy said MINRAISE Only, and the other said the only raise he can make is an ALLIN raise. Thanks.

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BOTH were wrong, unless Player C had less than T2300 (depending on the min. raise rule they are using)

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Ya know, if we could just get a link in the sticky to Roberts Ruyles we wouldn't have to keep answering these questions.

To OP. As Larry and other's have said the action is completely open to player C.

Here's a good rule of thumb: if you have not acted, nothing a player in front of you can do will close (or limit) the ation to you. When facing a bet (of whatever size) you will always have three possible actions. Fold, call, or raise.

Here's a second rule of thumb. If you have acted but action by a subsequent player or players opens the action to you, no intervening player can close (or limit) the action for you before it gets back to you. When the action is re-opened to you you will always have three options: Fold, call, or raise.

So then, the question not definitively answered in this thread already, is how much is the minimum raise for player C. Fortunately this too, is not matter of opinion, its in the rules. There is NO COMPLETE THE BET rule in no limit holdem. The minimum raise has been established by the first bettor (eight hundred dollars). Because there is no complete the bet rule, an eight hundred dollar raise would have to be on top of the all-in players less than min raise. So a min raise is to 2300.

In the above scenario player C can Fold, Call 1500, or raise to anything from 2300 straight to his entire stack.

Here is the appropriate rule from the No Limit section of Roberts Rules of Poker:

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5. “Completing the bet” is a limit poker wager type only, not allowed at big-bet poker. For example, if a player bets $100 and the next player goes all-in for $140, a player wishing to raise must make the total bet at least $240 (unless going all-in).



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