76s in a 4-way pot with a short stack ($200 6m)

[poboys]

Short stack is currently frustrated 40/20 type who can't seem to find the fold button.

MP is solid 2+2'er 21/18 type. I didn't think there was any way he's slowplaying.

BTN is loosy-goosy and calls way to much.

Comments on each street would be appreciated. Turn was a really tough spot for me -- I didn't think that MP would raise, but thought he might call and check down. He seemed really uneasy with this hand too.

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
MP: $213.10
CO: $65.85
BTN: $134.75
SB: $206
Hero (BB): $310
UTG: $54.05

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3, 6 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $8</font>, CO calls $8, BTN calls $8, SB folds, Hero calls $6

<font color="black">Flop:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($33, 4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $14</font>, BTN calls $14, Hero calls $14, MP calls $14

<font color="black">Turn:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] ($89, 4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets all in for $43.85</font>, BTN folds, Hero

[poboys]

Anyone?

[tufat23]

i'd shove

[Abramovic]

Maths question. You have 9 clean outs, a few more that may be good. Lets say we need 4-1.

We're only getting about 3-1 on the call, so its a fold.

Edit: Didnt see MP still to act, not sure if this changes things. Still a fold.

[Daddy Warbucks]

It's pretty marginal. You have a double gutter and a flush draw, so you have odds to call if your outs are live. If he's got the made straight, then you don't, so its up to you really. Personally i spite call the short stack.

[JunkTrunk]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd shove

[/ QUOTE ]

Shoving makes no sense since CO is already AI and we currently have 7 high. We need to improve to win this hand and we'd like it if MP calls to pad our equity.

[poboys]

I agree that it is a mathy question but there are so many unknowns, I thought it was an interesting one.

I could have anywhere from 3-15 outs.
I still have one player (the pfr, who check-called the flop).

If I have 15 outs then I am about 2:1 to win [two dimes] and am getting 3:1 on the call.

If I only have nine outs, then I am 4:1 but laying 3:1. If MP calls then I am getting the required odds to call.

If I have 12 outs, then I am just getting enough odds to call assuming that MP doesn't call.

Anyway just seemed like so many possibilities, I wanted to see what others would do.

Although, I can't see how shoving is a good idea here.. can someone shed some light as to why this would be best?

[mustardo]

"Shoving makes no sense since CO is already AI and we currently have 7 high. We need to improve to win this hand and we'd like it if MP calls to pad our equity."

Personally I think this is a fold but if we're gonna play why is a push so bad? I see what you're saying but isn't a likely hand for MP another draw which means if we hit we would still be behind. This as I say to me is a reason to fold but surely a push helps us to get heads up with the maximum amount of outs against the maniac on tilt who could have any piece?

[Abramovic]

To make this call profitable MP has to come in behind. Even then it isnt a big +EV move.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
To make this call profitable MP has to come in behind. Even then it isnt a big +EV move.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. We most often have 15 outs against the tilting shortstack so calling here HU would be correct.