$55 - JJ on level 4, two limpers, big stack

blindfold · #1 02-12-2006, 03:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, it's interesting that we always get these kind of responses from the guys who registered within the last month or two?

[/ QUOTE ]

please, this isnt the only well around

[/ QUOTE ]Ok, so how much postflop skillz do you have with 14 BBs behind, after you raise to 300 and get at least two callers?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. youre the big stack and relatively speaking, the top edge of your stack is worth less to you than the equivelent of one of theirs. i agree with Gigabet and his 'block' theory

2. you'll get maybe one or two callers at the most...they limped and one of them so far prolly has junk.

3. i bet you'll hear about it before the flop falls whether one of them is holding a monster.

4. id rather risk 3bb than with the 4th best starting hand than (a) fold or (b) risk all of it

with this in mind, why not raising 4bb and playing the flop carefully?

Scuba Chuck · #2 02-12-2006, 03:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, it's interesting that we always get these kind of responses from the guys who registered within the last month or two?

[/ QUOTE ]

please, this isnt the only well around

[/ QUOTE ]Ok, so how much postflop skillz do you have with 14 BBs behind, after you raise to 300 and get at least two callers?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. youre the big stack and relatively speaking, the top edge of your stack is worth less to you than the equivelent of one of theirs. i agree with Gigabet and his 'block' theory

2. you'll get maybe one or two callers at the most...they limped and one of them so far prolly has junk.

3. i bet you'll hear about it before the flop falls whether one of them is holding a monster.

4. id rather risk 3bb than with the 4th best starting hand than (a) fold or (b) risk all of it

with this in mind, why not raising 4bb and playing the flop carefully?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, here's the rest of the hand:

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1305)
UTG+1 (t425)
MP1 (t1100)
MP2 (t1350)
MP3 (t905)
Hero (t1735)
Button (t1095)
SB (t1140)
BB (t945)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t100, MP3 folds, Hero raises to t450, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t350, MP2 calls t350

Flop: (t1500) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t400, UTG folds, MP2 raises to t900 (All-in), Hero .....

blindfold · #3 02-12-2006, 04:05 AM

ok, so he check raised your continuation bet

fold, continue playing with ten BB's, and sleep well knowing that you played it correctly

either way, the preflop decision was correct because the odds were against the villian pairing his king, do you regret it?

Pasterbator · #4 02-12-2006, 04:08 AM

While i don't mind the PF raise, the flop bet is begging to be raised... isnt it? I think you need to decide if you're playing it to the felt and play accordingly. 1/4 pot bet? I don't really like it.

Scuba Chuck · #5 02-12-2006, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
While i don't mind the PF raise, the flop bet is begging to be raised... isnt it? I think you need to decide if you're playing it to the felt and play accordingly. 1/4 pot bet? I don't really like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's correct. My bet is begging to get raised, IMO. That's why I hated this hand all the way around. I thought that my raise to 450 would narrow the field to one, but that failed. With 1500 in the pot, and ~ 1300 behind, it's tough to make any kind of bet that seems normal looking.

It's also the reason why I can't "sleep well knowing that you played it correctly"

Checking is also atrocious. Bleh. I think the only way to play this hand, once I get to the flop, is to bet that amount on the flop.

adanthar · #6 02-12-2006, 05:11 AM

Eh it's 20% of your stack, just push.

Once you get here, I don't think checking behind is atrocious at all; it's a bad flop (not just because of the K) and the stack sizes are awkward.

ZeroPointMachine · #7 02-12-2006, 05:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Eh it's 20% of your stack, just push.

Once you get here, I don't think checking behind is atrocious at all; it's a bad flop (not just because of the K) and the stack sizes are awkward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. If a push will increase your stack >15% it is rarely far from optimal.

pergesu · #8 02-12-2006, 08:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While i don't mind the PF raise, the flop bet is begging to be raised... isnt it? I think you need to decide if you're playing it to the felt and play accordingly. 1/4 pot bet? I don't really like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's correct. My bet is begging to get raised, IMO. That's why I hated this hand all the way around. I thought that my raise to 450 would narrow the field to one, but that failed. With 1500 in the pot, and ~ 1300 behind, it's tough to make any kind of bet that seems normal looking.

It's also the reason why I can't "sleep well knowing that you played it correctly"

Checking is also atrocious. Bleh. I think the only way to play this hand, once I get to the flop, is to bet that amount on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hardly think checking the flop is atrocious, and in fact it's exactly what I'd do. As it is, you folded jacks getting 5.5-1 on a call. THAT is atrocious, and I have a feeling the dude was laughing his ass off when you folded.

I don't think calling the flop is right, but I would not bet it either. This seems too much like a situation where players will try a desperation c/r with crap (the AT that people are talking about?), and you end up being a chump because you realaly can't call.

Scuba Chuck · #9 02-12-2006, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As it is, you folded jacks getting 5.5-1 on a call. THAT is atrocious, and I have a feeling the dude was laughing his ass off when you folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I called, and he rivered quads against me. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

that's why I said that bet was begging to get raised.

blindfold · #10 02-12-2006, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While i don't mind the PF raise, the flop bet is begging to be raised... isnt it? I think you need to decide if you're playing it to the felt and play accordingly. 1/4 pot bet? I don't really like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's correct. My bet is begging to get raised, IMO. That's why I hated this hand all the way around. I thought that my raise to 450 would narrow the field to one, but that failed. With 1500 in the pot, and ~ 1300 behind, it's tough to make any kind of bet that seems normal looking.

It's also the reason why I can't "sleep well knowing that you played it correctly"

Checking is also atrocious. Bleh. I think the only way to play this hand, once I get to the flop, is to bet that amount on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point, ill have to think about this. good thread