NL25: flopped set in multiplayer pot

slickss · #1 01-23-2007, 12:57 AM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($26.65)
SB ($4.90)
Hero ($13.60)
UTG ($18.65)
UTG+1 ($21.10)
MP1 ($13)
MP2 ($17.95)
MP3 ($91.95)
CO ($16.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 raises to $0.75, 2 folds, SB calls $0.65, Hero calls $0.50, UTG raises to $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($6.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls $4, SB folds.

Turn: ($14.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero..?

I considered pushing here, both to semi-bluff and to get villain off his flush draw. Any thoughts?

franknagaijr · #2 01-23-2007, 01:21 AM

First thought (preflop): trouble hands are trouble for a reason. You could have safely tossed this preflop.

Second thought (flop): If you come this far and flop a set, you may as well overbet the flop with a push and take it down, or make the draws pay full price to beat you. Sure, you might be facing JJ, but you're probably not.

Turn? The horses have left, too late to shut the gate. You're only going to push out anybody who had a straight draw combined with backdoor law. Oh wait, that guy already made his straight....

Your backdoor flush here is weak, but you've got a handful of river outs if you're not already behind JJ. You might consider trying to see the river for free, and if somebody pushes into you, they might be semi-bluffing too. An all-in call wouldn't be ridiculous here, although it was better on the flop.

Split Suit · #3 01-23-2007, 01:28 AM

being u lack postflop skill right now (no offense...but this hand kid of shows a lack of understanding) fold preflop

as played: pot flop, push turn

not potting the flop is attrocious off the shortstack.

slickss · #4 01-23-2007, 02:15 AM

You say lack of post-flop skill, which is fine, but why? Is it because I don't pot the flop? And yes, I am new at Omaha.

Also, why is this a "trouble hand"? I see the point, put please elaborate.

Split Suit · #5 01-23-2007, 02:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You say lack of post-flop skill, which is fine, but why? Is it because I don't pot the flop? And yes, I am new at Omaha.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. the PSB in this spot is crucial given ur stack sizing. no bet ur making on the turn is going to b a bluff bet (so for instance, in NLHE, u might make a smaller bet on the flop, so u can fire a near PSB at the turn to take it down...).

i didnt rly mean to come off insulting...just telling u that until u up ur post flop skill a lil bit...dont play marginal hands like these. they will cause u more pain than they are worth.

slickss · #6 01-23-2007, 02:33 AM

No insult taken, just trying to improve my game [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I do realize that I could've played it better. I usually don't play this preflop, I was sorta just drawn into it on this hand. Anyway, I ended up pushing and here is the rest:

Turn: ($14.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8.35 (All-In), MP3 calls $8.35.

River: ($31.20) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $31.20

Hero has 2s 9c 3h 9h (High: three of a kind, nines).
MP3 has Ts Ah Ks Kd (High: flush, king high).
Outcome: MP3 wins $31.20.

bbartlog · #7 01-23-2007, 09:40 AM

In this particular case I don't think you could have gotten him to fold the flop even with a full-sized bet, since you're only a 55/45 favorite or so over his flush/gutshot/overpair draw combo. But potting the flop is still the right move.
And like everyone else said, fold preflop. I used to defend my big blind with trash too, but it was a leak in my game. And notice that with lots of people seeing the flop and a preflop raiser, you can assume that there are few if any aces left in the deck - and an ace is what the 23 part of your hand really needs.

franknagaijr · #8 01-23-2007, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why is this a "trouble hand"? I see the point, put please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

9923 - Your flush draw is weak, and will only win as a backdoor flush, and even then not often.

9923 Your set is weak, and will frequently pay off TT through AA, but infrequently collect from 88 through 22, since most players understand these to be very vulnerable sets.

9923 - You need an ace to hit the low. Given the preflop action, clearly at least one ace, and possibly two are accounted for, which means you have two outs for the low. If you flop the ace, you can still be counterfeited.

9923 - Will only scoop with a miracle board. Don't play for half the pot.