Play more hands in small ante NLgames?

[TanukiTen]

I'm just reading Sklansky's "Theory of Poker", where he says, that if the Ante is low, or about normal, you play more tight and vice versa. Makes Sense to me.

So when playing 0.10/0.25 NL on the Net or similar small Ante NLGames with friends, I sometimes here players say, that they take a look at the flop with a lot of mediocre to bad hands and that they would not do that in a higher ante game.

So question is: If i say, that because the Ante is so low, i take a look at (almost) every flop, because i hope to win a pot with one of these hands, that pays back all the wasted/too loosely played antes, then for my reasoning i would have to do the same in a 10/25$ NL game because with the size of the Antes, also the betting afterwards increases.
But is it proportionally? Bet Ratio(Antes to average Bets) of Small Ante games is same as Bet Ratio of Higher Ante games?

Hope i made my point clear.

Thx for your answers

[edfurlong]

I feel like you are confusing antes with blinds.

[TanukiTen]

I thought, that blinds are a form of an ante. A mandatory bet before(ante) the cards are dealt.
Only difference is, that not everyone has to post that ante/blind.

Tell me if i'm confusing something here, please.

[edfurlong]

The general idea is that you can play more loosely in a game where the preflop betting is small in relation to the relative stack sizes of the players.

Assuming the same players at the table, you should play a .10/.20 game with a $20 buy in the same as a 1.00/2.00 game with a $200 buy in.

I think I may be misunderstanding you, hopefully someone smarter than me will come weigh in.

[TanukiTen]

[ QUOTE ]


Assuming the same players at the table, you should play a .10/.20 game with a $20 buy in the same as a 1.00/2.00 game with a $200 buy in.

I think I may be misunderstanding you, hopefully someone smarter than me will come weigh in.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, i think we're on the same track here. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If we assume the players are the same:
I also think, that i should play a 1/2 game the same way i would play a 10/20 game.

But some people say that in a 1/2(or 0.10/0.25) game they would play differently and see more flops, because they only have to put up a small amount too see the flop.

which would be only correct thinking in my opinion, if i were to gain more in a higher game by playing more tight and gain more in a lower game by playing looser(with the same players!)

[PhatPots]

you misunderstood the point DS was trying to make. Its the size of the ante relative to your stack. think of it more like this

you have 1000 BB (big bets) and the ante is 1BB, now you will play very tight in this situation.

Suppose you now have 50BB, and the ante is 1BB, now you will play a lot looser.

That is the jist of it. Your friends comments have nothing to do with this theory. Its has to do with how much they are willing to loose gambling. To them $0.25 is nothing, but $1 is probably a lot more.

[PantsOnFire]

I have random thoughts on this so bear with me here.

First, I absolutely think it is relative. The amount you bet, monetarily, should not be a factor. You can't say, jeez I can't call this because it is next month's rent or hey I'll play along because it only cost me a piece of gum. Over the long term, that's a bad way of thinking.

For example, when I play cash now, I think of it as chips. My goal is to win chips and lose as few chips as possible. The value of those chips are irrelevent. I have a bankroll and I play within that bankroll so the actual monetary value of my betting is not a factor.

Now getting back to the tight/loose question. In general, I play looser and see a lot more flops cheaply when my stack is big relative to the blinds. This applies to both cash and tourneys and I'm talking NL here. Implied odds in NL allow you to see more flops when your stack and other stacks are deep. Also, at a tight table, I will see more flops because I can play small ball and steal a lot.

When I have a short stack, I play tighter and play long ball. Or if I have a big stack and everyone else is short, I'll play this same way. There are no implied odds here.

My tightness is determined by the other players and size of my stack and other stacks relative to the blinds, not the actual money value of the blind. It's just a coincidence that I might play tighter at higher stakes because the other players are better at small ball and it is usually difficult to see cheap flops against TAGs.

Finally, I think it is a huge mistake that many low stakes players make when they say "Hey I'll see this flop because it's only 10 cents". That's a leak.

[LouisCyphre]

I believe that the point DS wanted to make is:
It does not matter if you use antes or blinds. If the cost of getting dealt cards is low, you can affort to wait for a high quality hand.
If the average cost per hand is high, you have to play more hands because otherwise you could not make up for the lost money for the hands you chose not play.
Compare those examples:
a) 1$ ante, number of players does not matter unless there is a bring-in (cost per hand:1$)
b) 10$ Big blind,10 players (cost per hand:1$)
c) 10$ Big blind+5$ small blind,10 players (cost per hand:1.50$)
d) 10$ Big blind+5$ small blind,6 players (cost per hand:2.50$)
e) 10$ Big blind+5$ small blind,3 players (cost per hand:5$)
In examples a+b you can playing very tight.
In examples d+e you have to get involved a lot more hands else you get blinded to death.
----

I disagree with PhatPots. Pre-flop I call more loosely if my (effective) stack is deep because of implied odds. For the measly investment of 1BB I might win 1000BB in his example.
Post-flop you might have to play tighter with a deep stack because now you could be facing reverse implied odds.
----

But ante size and stack size are two different issues. You have to make adjustments for both and those adjustment might contradict each other.

[rakemeplz]

I hope you realize in the first two paragraphs of your first post you directly contradict yourself. Sklanksy says play tight and you agree with him and play looser.

The reason you play looser is because there is more to steal when you play with antes plus blinds and thus you can open up your standards more with weaker hands (and thusly open up your calling standards etc). You also get improved pot/implied odds.

Another factor is having to push more without getting anted out in a NL tournament and you are a short stack. Often I feel the need to push more with antes rather than blinds as my stack is being quickly depleted.

[rakemeplz]

I hope you realize in the first two paragraphs of your first post you directly contradict yourself. Sklanksy says play tight and you agree with him and play looser. Also as has already been pointed out you are confusing antes with blinds.

The reason you play looser is because there is more to steal when you play with antes plus blinds and thus you can open up your standards more with weaker hands (and thusly open up your calling standards etc). You also get improved pot/implied odds.

Another factor is having to push more without getting anted out in a NL tournament and you are a short stack. Often I feel the need to push more with antes rather than blinds as my stack is being quickly depleted.