How many re-raises before you fold KK?

[Gonso]

I don't care, I don't fold KK preflop unless I'm uber-deep and up against a Rock, and even then, it depends. In tourneys, never.

[DMoogle]

I'm sure the OP meant this thread to be serious, but it's [censored] ridiculous how funny some of the posts are.

[LearnedfromTV]

You should never fold preflop because you should flat call before he would get the chance to put in the raise that always means aces. So should he.

I know I'm disregarding some infinity paradoxes and infinite implied odds or some such, but the point is flat call when his range is wider than {AA} or even {KK+}.

[Johnny Drama]

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Probably when the re-raises reach the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop.

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so, three?

[Chomp]

"The fourth raise is aces" is one of the most reliable bits of poker potted wisdom IMO. I'm not sure I've ever seen this dictum fail assuming equivalent stacks.

[Acein8ter]

Depends upon the player and level that your playing. Online/B&M... Some play AKs like the nuts...

[JackSevenSuited]

The following is an excerpt from Phil Gordons Little Green Book (great book).

The fourth raise means aces.

Now i know better. When i have alot of chips in comparison to the blinds, i nearly always try to make the third raise with K-K so that i can get away from the hand if my opponent makes the fourth raise all in.

I found this to be exceptionally true. However it does go on to say that if your image or your opponents image is loose and/or unreasonable that folding kings shouldnt be so automatic.

Hope that helps. Jack Seven Suited. Always pans out.

[schroedy]

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Jack Seven Suited. Always pans out.

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Well, all I can say is don't call four way action with it when you have less than 2 full rounds in chips at the Normandie tournament or you will get a long lecture from ATs on what a horrible play it was.

I started to defend myself . . . then I thought, "Why should I give lessons for free?"

[KinkyKid]

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"The fourth raise is aces" is one of the most reliable bits of poker potted wisdom IMO. I'm not sure I've ever seen this dictum fail assuming equivalent stacks.

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Really? As you move up in limits, more and more people put in a fourth raise with less. I am not claiming to know what levels you play...But even at 2/4 no limit, players are 3-betting lighter which has the effect of often 4-betting them lighter than usual. I'll 4-bet shove at least AK, QQ+ almost 100% of the time depending on the player. There has been much discussion of Grimstarr (one of the high stakes players) and his need to shove preflop with AQ.

I think the real answer to when to fold kk is that it depends. If I have played 1000 hands against a player that has only ever 3-bet me with aces, then I am never shoving KK. If I have 1000 hands against a player that has 3-bet me half of all my raised hands, I might be inclined to shove 99.

[jakrpanda]

I'm curious how many of you would lay down KK in a cash ring game though. Gordon was talking specifically about tournaments in his example and I can understand why I'd want to lay KK down in a tourney where I want to avoid coin flips under certain circumstances.

But in a cash game wouldn't pushing KK in such circumstances pay off? Obviously it depends on your reads, stack sizes, table image and situation, etc. But if I have KK what are the chances that the next guy has AA?

The reason I ask this is I remember a specific game where I pushed all-in to the 4th raise. It was a $1/$2 NL cash game on FTP and certain enough he had AA.


I think I should've probably paid more attention to be honest. Why am I re-raising unless to put another player on a range of hands and give me more action preflop? If I take that information and disregard it then I do so at my own peril.

But looking in hindsight I think I would've done the same thing considering how many push AK like it's the nuts and not just a strong drawing hand. I made a "mistake" in the sense that I didn't play correctly according to theory, but was my play justified? I think so. I'll play KK strong because over time it will win more than it loses and if I come up against AA then it's a cooler.

Am I totally off base?