Pushing from SB - Page 3

Pudge714 · #21 01-20-2007, 01:16 PM

Another thing I forget to add. Depending on what you set that min edge at things change quite a bit.

beserious · #22 01-20-2007, 01:23 PM

What do most good players generally use as a cutoff for min edge in ICM? Is 0.5% pretty standard? Obviously the weaker the other players compared to you, the higher the cutoff.

DevinLake · #23 01-20-2007, 01:25 PM

beserious,

You are acting like a little kid here. You asked a question, posted a general observation. People for the most part gave you what they thought might explain some of what you were seeing.

Ie, things like "some of them aren't that good", "with 0.5% edge nash is like 55%/18%", "there might be metagame stuff going on".

So, my question for you is what do you want to hear? You obviously have something specific in mind that no one has been able to hit yet.

There are probably a lot of combinations of reasons that contribute to why they may not be pushing from the SB when you might think it's an any two spot. But, you seem to want some high stakes sng superstar to come in here and tell you the exact reason why some one would definitively be not pushing in specific spots. Well, you're not going to get that because you have just given a vague general spot with no reads, stack sizes, etc and because there is no definitive answer.

Mark1978 · #24 01-20-2007, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do most good players generally use as a cutoff for min edge in ICM? Is 0.5% pretty standard? Obviously the weaker the other players compared to you, the higher the cutoff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 0.5% is pretty standard, but I'm not sure where that number came from. It really all depends on your situation though. If you are desperate you might take any positive edge before the blinds eat you up. If you are shortstacked on the bubble and there's a microstack about to go broke, then you want a much bigger edge.

beserious · #25 01-20-2007, 01:30 PM

I like the 0.5% edge nash is 55/18% comment, although I am curious whether this is speculative or if someone computed it for the situations I mentioned. Maybe someone could explain some of this "metagame stuff" a little bit. Could you elaborate on these "lot of combinations of reasons," since the whole thread has only been able to come up with a few. And again, I'm fine getting intelligent feedback from a good low stake player as opposed to a high stakes superstar.

sng-sam · #26 01-20-2007, 01:40 PM

this is turning into a flame war. I have no really significant sample but I will tell you all that I have observed the same as OP on many occasions.

SAM

Pudge714 · #27 01-20-2007, 01:54 PM

Guys in lower buyin SNGs very few people call correctly. This means you can push really wide and makes lots of money.

In higher buyin SNGs if you push too wide good players will call correctly and you will lose a lot of money.
Nobody look at SNGPT for this. Everyone has 1500 chips 9 handed blinds are 75/150. SB is pushing 100% you are in the BB with a min edge of 0.5 what is your calling range.

beserious · #28 01-20-2007, 02:05 PM

I see alot of people eagerly call off their whole stack immediately with A2 from the BB to a SB push in low buyin sng's, even when I have been playing tight all game. Especially if you push a few times in a row, they'll likely
widen their calling range in the future.
This brings up a pretty interesting metagame issue I think. It might be good to fold occasionally from SB in lower blind levels -- like 75/150 -- even with 0.5% ICM edge, if this will make BB think you are conservative and will make him fold more in the 100/200 and 200/400 levels, when stealing is more important. This makes more sense against better players than weaker players, since they are more likely to be paying attention to your patterns.

AMT · #29 01-20-2007, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see alot of people eagerly call off their whole stack immediately with A2 from the BB to a SB push in low buyin sng's, even when I have been playing tight all game. Especially if you push a few times in a row, they'll likely
widen their calling range in the future.
This brings up a pretty interesting metagame issue I think. It might be good to fold occasionally from SB in lower blind levels -- like 75/150 -- even with 0.5% ICM edge, if this will make BB think you are conservative and will make him fold more in the 100/200 and 200/400 levels, when stealing is more important. This makes more sense against better players than weaker players, since they are more likely to be paying attention to your patterns.

[/ QUOTE ]

your statement about using this "strategy" against better players is wrong.

Mark1978 · #30 01-20-2007, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Guys in lower buyin SNGs very few people call correctly. This means you can push really wide and makes lots of money.

In higher buyin SNGs if you push too wide good players will call correctly and you will lose a lot of money.
Nobody look at SNGPT for this. Everyone has 1500 chips 9 handed blinds are 75/150. SB is pushing 100% you are in the BB with a min edge of 0.5 what is your calling range.

[/ QUOTE ]

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