What are "TAG" preflop stats in full-ring?

[Slap My Jack]

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Definately you can see quite a variety of TAGs, from the set mining end up to the more sLAG types.

I run anywhere from 17/7 to 20/10 give/take.

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I don't think sLAG are a type of TAG. TAG and sLAG are square and circle. I mean, tight, not loose, aggressive.

I wouldn't consider nits to be TAGs.

If you're 10/5/.5 you're a nit, not a TAG. Your play consists of outflopping people (set mining). You play a passive game preflop unless you have the nuts. Postflop you only get aggressive with the nuts as well. You don't semi-bluff, you don't 3bet bluff preflop. If you do it is rare. Your style can be considered exploitable, or at least avoidable by others at the table. Nits definitely don't exploit positional play to their advantage (Holy [censored] are you open-limping on the button again??? Maybe you'll hit your set and stack me if I catch top pair no kicker or bottom two pair from the BB???)

TAGs have a well-balanced approach that doesn't leave money on the table. They are aggressive preflop. TAGs might be seen as UTG nits, and button LAGs. They play their position and attack trying to win pots, not trying to outflop opponents, but trying to outplay worse opponents. TAGs adjust based on conditions and opponents. Against a calling station they outplay their opponents by knowing they have to outflop them and play their hand right when they hit---no slowplaying, valuebetting hard. Against LAGs they will start 3betting them, or 4betting if getting 3bet light. Although solid TAG abc style might seem predictable, if played right, it should be difficult to exploit.

[RiverMustelid]

How do you crosspost - the stats from 2+2 FR players are in the SSNL sticky. By Pokey I think. Would inform this debate I think.

For what its worth I am 16/6 with an aggression factor of 2.1. I think this qualifies as TAG?

[diebitter]

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I'm 20/7 long-term but that can bounce around on any given table - just finished 4-tabling where I was 12/6 on one table and 25/13 on another over ~100 hands.

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Agree. some tables are best played at 5% preflop (loose and wild!) and some can stand 50% (but only if it's perfect: super tight to your left, a couple of loose-calling PF players who are weak-tight postflop to your right). This is if your one or at most 2-tabling though. Any more you can't be playing the tables to their fullest, your head would explode.

[Renton]

raises around 10% + high flop agression = tag

[acidca]

I'm 14/11/2.35 over 50k hands at .25/.50..
Why do so many people have such small pfrs compared to their vpip?

[Dastone]

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If you're 10/5/.5 you're a nit, not a TAG. Your play consists of outflopping people (set mining). You play a passive game preflop unless you have the nuts. Postflop you only get aggressive with the nuts as well. You don't semi-bluff, you don't 3bet bluff preflop. If you do it is rare. Your style can be considered exploitable, or at least avoidable by others at the table. Nits definitely don't exploit positional play to their advantage (Holy [censored] are you open-limping on the button again??? Maybe you'll hit your set and stack me if I catch top pair no kicker or bottom two pair from the BB???)



TAGs have a well-balanced approach that doesn't leave money on the table. They are aggressive preflop. TAGs might be seen as UTG nits, and button LAGs. They play their position and attack trying to win pots, not trying to outflop opponents, but trying to outplay worse opponents. TAGs adjust based on conditions and opponents. Against a calling station they outplay their opponents by knowing they have to outflop them and play their hand right when they hit---no slowplaying, valuebetting hard. Against LAGs they will start 3betting them, or 4betting if getting 3bet light. Although solid TAG abc style might seem predictable, if played right, it should be difficult to exploit.

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Excellent summary.

This is what I strive for, and I have thought about it over, and over quite often. When playing this style my thinking is, I know what I'm doing, and you know what I'm doing, we both know what I'm doing, but this is what I am going to do, and you're not going to be able to stop it. To me playing a Tag style is not about just playing tight, but playing solid.

I play 17/11, but that doesn't mean that I am only playing the top 17% of hands dealt to me, and not playing the bottom 83%. Nor am I only raising with the best of those 17% of hands that I play, that make up the 11th percentile of which I raise with. Sometimes I'll just call with the QQ, and raise it up w/ the 75s depending on what the current situation calls for. To me these numbers are really just the ratio of hands that I am playing, and raising with, and not neccassarily indicitive of what cards I should, and should not be playing. However, I do find they are somewhat comforting, and they are also good for uncovering where potential leaks may be found.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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I'm 14/11/2.35 over 50k hands at .25/.50..
Why do so many people have such small pfrs compared to their vpip?

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weak-tight and set-miners

I actually have a theory for this that I'm going to post about later. It has to do with the way the brain works and loss aversion. I'm excited about it.

[Epple]

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I'm at 10/5. Too tight?

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Yea

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against non-retarded opponnents you're not going to be able to extract as much value from your hands.

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Couldn't agree more.

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A what level do you find non-retarded players in such numbers that it will affect my win rate? I'm at 25NL right now and people don't pay attention at all.

[checkmate36]

I recently took up NL FR and play the lowest buy-in. After 10k hands Im 11/4/3.5AF [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

How does a 10/5 type player open up his game a bit? I like SC's from the button or CO only. On the button I take a flop with Axs. Maybe add these hands from the hijack and later??

Also wanted to add that at the lowest limits, players don't even know your just outflopping them. Im interested if the $25NL its the same way? It can't be as bad at $25NL as the games I play.

[xGREGORx]

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I recently took up NL FR and play the lowest buy-in. After 10k hands Im 11/4/3.5AF [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

How does a 10/5 type player open up his game a bit? I like SC's from the button or CO only. On the button I take a flop with Axs. Maybe add these hands from the hijack and later??

Also wanted to add that at the lowest limits, players don't even know your just outflopping them. Im interested if the $25NL its the same way? It can't be as bad at $25NL as the games I play.

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If you are first in preflop, always open for a raise. What hands you do that with depends on your position, the villians you are playing against, and your table image. That should raise your pfr #. To increase your vpip, be more aggressive in position - punish limpers with raises from the CO with any hand you want to see a flop with. Raising 1-2 limpers with 53s on the button is the right play versus alot of players who limp too much and fold to a raise and if they don't fold, a cbet on the flop often takes it down. That being said... most of the money won at the lowest stakes is playing better hands than your opposition and betting for value, so I would play pretty tight down there and open up your game more as you move up.