I liked my chances preflop but I don't think i played this one well.

[benwood]

P/F:Fold or raise to try to lose BB.

Flop:Check & fold against 2 players or call against 1.

Turn:Not a bad card.Didn't complete the low,& now you can possibly scoop with A,K,Q,or J on the river.

As you can see,Steamboatin,my play is similar to yours,& I don't think that we played it too badly.Good luck.

[comic2b]

I love your analysis Buzz. One of your assumptions is flawed though. That both players are not idiots. Bad assumptions. I have played 18,200 hands at Absolute at that limit. Winning player 1.61/100 alot of that is short handed or I would be higher.

I cite further proof as the VPIP of 80.5 and 59.7 at a full table. For you to put them on hands as good as you did is really overreaching.

I hate the preflop raise. I rarely raise from SB in full ring. Make one of those cards even a 5 so there is a slim shot at a wheel, and at least a low draw.

What I hate the most is these people will not fold, you know that too. Your also OOP. If you just smooth call the hand plays out a lot differently.

Ok so you raise. How to play it from here.

Sure fire out. Let's fake the nut flush and the nut low. When you get called by both, that sucks. The turn is a good card for you. Low is still not there, which give you hope that they might fold. You also picked up a gutshot for the nuts. Let's be optimistic! The way you played I'd fire again. Hope somebody folds. When you get raised. I might think about folding. Probably should. If you didn't have the gutshot it's a clear fold. Now you pray. Hope for a King with no flush, hope for a king with a flush, hope board pairs. Anything else I muck.

P.S. I'm real interested in who the players were. If you PM me I'll give you the stats I have. I really like the way the flopped set played it. I think he was scared of 56 more than giving up half his pot.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
One of your assumptions is flawed though. That both players are not idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]Comic - It's possible they're idiots. But having some logic behind their play makes more sense to me.

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I don’t play on-line - but I’m assuming Hero’s opponents are not total idiots.
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Incorrect assumption. If I remember correctly, the pot was scooped when one of them turned a set of tens.

[/ QUOTE ] Steamboatin - I don’t think having a set of tens here is an example of poor play, let alone idiot play.

Comic and Steamboatin - I don’t think of these guys as idiots.

If I understand correctly what VPIP means, one opponent is seeing the flop with about eight out of ten hands and the other is seeing the flop with about six out of ten hands. If so, I agree that these opponents are playing too loosely before the flop.

However, even though these opponents are playing too loosely, you just can’t assume there is no logic behind their play. I think there <font color="white">_</font>is some sort of logic behind their play. I don't think they’re necessarily waiting for a miracle card (although some times they may be).

However, it’s not clear to me what that logic is. And I think everyone else, more or less, has the same difficulty finding the logic behind the play of an opponent who is playing in situations where Hero would not play. Mistake prone opponents may make enough mistakes so that you’ll possibly make money - but only if you don’t make bigger mistakes yourself.

At any rate, it’s more difficult (at least for me) to play well against opponents who play a wide range of starting hands. They evidently are making a series of mistakes by playing one poor starting hand after another. Even so, taking advantage of their mistake rather than reacting with a bigger mistake of my own can be a challenge.

Hero may have a better starting hand, but unless the flop meshes with it, the hand loses most of it's pre-flop value. Continuing banging away just because he had a better starting hand, even though it does not fit the flop well, does not seem the way to take advantage of a Villain who plays too many starting hands.

I can remember back to when it wasn’t clear to me what hands I should fold before the flop. I probably saw the flop with at least eight out of ten hands I was dealt, maybe more. Having three of a kind in the hand dealt to me seemed a disadvantage, but otherwise it was not intuitively very clear at all what cards I should be seeing the flop with.

[ QUOTE ]
For you to put them on hands as good as you did is really overreaching.

[/ QUOTE ]As I think more about it, I agree.

The pair of tens in one Villain's hand makes sense to me. I can remember when I would have played a hand just because it had a pair of tens.

Still, Hero should recognize that he doesn't have much after this flop. Someone who started with trash could very well have picked up something on this flop. Even against a loose opponent, Hero still should keep his guard up.

Buzz

[steamboatin]

[ QUOTE ]
Still, Hero should recognize that he doesn't have much after this flop. Someone who started with trash could very well have picked up something on this flop. Even against a loose opponent, Hero still should keep his guard up.

Buzz



[/ QUOTE ]

I have no delusions about the quality of my post flop play on this hand. I played it as badly as possible.