Looking for Played and Mucked Hands Critiques

[swfl]

Following are boiler plate stats for 2 sessions (125 hands) of PLO8, low limit. Would appreciate your critiques on played and folded hands; all from SB or late position. First the stats:


Stats for one session

During current Omaha H/L session you were dealt 47 hands and saw flop:
- 5 out of 6 times while in big blind (83%)
- 1 out of 6 times while in small blind (16%)
- 10 out of 35 times in other positions (28%)
- a total of 16 out of 47 (34%)
Pots won at showdown - 3 of 5 (60%)
Pots won without showdown – 4

Stats for second session

During current Omaha H/L session you were dealt 78 hands and saw flop:
- 7 out of 10 times while in big blind (70%)
- 2 out of 8 times while in small blind (25%)
- 23 out of 60 times in other positions (38%)
- a total of 32 out of 78 (41%)
Pots won at showdown - 6 of 10 (60%)
Pots won without showdown – 4


During the evening, I mucked the following (among others, of course) hands before the flop:

78TK (dble suited)
A38T (rainbow)
779sKs
2467 (all hearts)
26JJ (rainbow)
3889 “
4457 (ss)
89QK (ss)
A47sTs
234s9s

And played the following (also from SB or late position)

4568 (ds)
77JJ r
23s4s4
2356 (ds)
59sQsQ
As4s5Q
99sTsQ
699J (ds)
2s8sKK
A38T r

All critiques welcome, and I hope you will be candid!

[MyTurn2Raise]

please move to omaha/8 forum

[bbartlog]

I don't recommend playing 77JJ or 699J, late position or not, double-suited or not. You might flop a set or FH and win a small pot, or make one of your non-nut flushes and likewise win a little. But this will be more than compensated for by the times when you get stacked by set-over-set, or freerolled when you flop a set of sevens and can't find a fold versus a made low. Or consider a flop like AAJ for your 77JJ hand. Looks awesome, but you're exactly 50/50 vs a hand like A23T (or any other Ace-low-low-X hand).
I'd rather play the A38T rainbow hand than those. It has poor prospects but at least it's easy to see where you're at.

[franknagaijr]

IMHO....

4568 (ds) -dangerous hand, since you're virtually surrendering half the pot before you start, and weak flushes are trouble too. Playable in late position multi-way if you've got a table where anybody who has an easy nut low (A2...) will pot to get quartered. Generally toss it.

23s4s4 - in late position, you can frequently make an educated guess how many aces might still be in the deck. If the answer is unfavorable, this is a clear toss. A set of 4s could be very expensive.

2356 (ds) - same as above. Slightly better than 2344 since you might get into a bidding war with two wheels who don't have a six and quarter them.

59sQsQ - For half a bet in plo8, maybe.
As4s5Q - Stronger than the others on this list.
99sTsQ - Weak and dangerous. You need a very specific flop for this to be worth anything.
699J (ds) - Not even for half a bet.
2s8sKK - For half a bet, maybe.
A38T r - On the button, or SB, maybe.

[davebreal]

Looks like you are putting too much value on suitedness and doublesuitedness. 99TQ and 669J are not playable under any circumstances... you do not want to make non-nut flushes, non-nut straights, or sets with either one of these hands.

My recommendation: first evaluate starting hands by card ranking, and then proceed to evaluate by starting position, table aggressiveness. Suitedness should be later in the thinking process.

Seems like you are on a decent track though, and not far off.

[swfl]

Thank you; actually, any double suitedness was less than a 10% factor in decisions to see, or not to see, the flop. But I see what you mean. The very few pots I've taken down with a T high flush I consider more of an accident than anything else. I know I'm being more patient with marginal hands, but have a ways to go. Flopping 2 pair still gives me fits. Holding A279, for example and flopping A9K (or whatever). Counterfeited, but looking at something much more powerfull. Any thoughts on that one?

[T50_Omaha8]

swfl--treat pocket pairs 22-99 as if they don't exist UNLESS they are in the context of a good low hand (for example, A288 suited to the ace should certainly not be thrown away, since a set/NLD combo is simply too valuable to pass up, and not that unlikely). But with these low PPs, you generally can't win if you don't flop a set, and the reverse implied odds associated with a flopped set are very high.

Higher pocket pairs (like TT-KK) should mainly be played in the context of high-only hands (or quality both ways hands like A3KK). You want other cards to surround your high pairs, giving you more straight and combo draw possibilities. When you limp in with a hand like KQQT, you are hoping to see high cards on the flop, since you will have a solid piece of almost every 2-high or 3-high flop. With QQ95, however, you are pretty much drawing exclusively to a queen. There are definitely plenty of times in Omaha/8 where you should muck 'good' pairs like KK preflop in an unraised pot.

[swfl]

Thanx to all who commented. Any comments on the flopped 2 pair situations I mentioned? These seem to pop up with (disastrous, sometimes) regularity. If I'm holding aces and deuces after the flop (counterfeited to the hilt), it's awfully hard to give it up. And, to make it worse, the more players, the bigger the pot, but the less likely of another ace hsowing it's merry head; and, if it does, someone has aces/treys!

[franknagaijr]

The only time you should play 2P agressively is when you are heads up, and through the preflop action you think you're facing a big pair. Otherwise, there should be an awful lot of hands where you can look at the board and tell yourself that you're chasing half the pot with a very weak hand, or chasing the whole pot with people who either have you beat, or have a lot of outs to beat you.

To recap - two sources of HE revenue are loss leaders in PLO8 - low flopped sets, and two pair with no other redraws.