Making Money at $.10/$.25 NL

[Splitrig]

Can you really make money at the $.10/$.25 game? I pulled the total winnings on 800 players from poker tracker. I only pulled out people that I had played at least 30 hands with. Of those 800, about half were in the money, and half were out of the money (40-60 really). If I assume that, on average, every hand you play cost you $.03 in rake (at this limit), every player but 12 lost money. Even worse, of those 12, 10 were very close to the 30-hand minimum that I set. Only two players were in the money that had played over 50 hands with me. That is .0025 of the players.
I think that my assumption about the $.03 is accurate; so how can so few people make money at 10/25?
If you agree with me, then at what limit can you really make money?
If you do not agree, what am I missing? Note, that I looked at many players, and if you divide total rake by number of hands entered, it averaged $.03.

[keikiwai]

this is more than 30 hands (still a small sample size, and this illustrates your problem, you will never get meaningfull sample sizes on anyone but yourself):



PS: your sampling is misleading. most estimates say that about 10% of players are winners over the longterm, but your db will have this figure higher due to the nature of the sampling

[kaz2107]

the reality to poker is that many people r not long term winners at the level they play at. i would estimate that 95% of people playin 25nl right now r not gonna b long term winners and i would also assume that a good deal of 2p2ers that read or occassionally post here in micro r not long term winners either. but that being said it is possible to win good money playin 25nl. my roomate is makin like 18ish an hour playin 25nl and is still adjusting to tha new level (from 10nl) and a few months ago when i played there i was makin 25 an hour.

so basically if u r an UPPER LEVEL PLAYER u will make decent money. but most people arent winners and it isnt easy by any means to do so. u have to work extremely hard to get to a dominant winner and if u dont put in the hours to get better u will b donating to the winners

[Splitrig]

How much did you pay in total rake?

[Splitrig]

kaz: That is how I feel — a donator. I have stayed ahead, but not after the rake. I listened to a podcast of a guy who makes a living at poker, and he said you can't make a living on less than a $2/$4 game. It was on ESPN Phil G.'s show. I am not into charity enough to play $2/$4 right yet.

[ama0330]

Keikiwai,

I hate you.

Thanks

[Splitrig]

ama0330, you probably like me though. I have been splitriging for four months (donating money at two stake levels at one time — a splitrig is a ship with more than 1 mast).

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
kaz: That is how I feel — a donator. I have stayed ahead, but not after the rake. I listened to a podcast of a guy who makes a living at poker, and he said you can't make a living on less than a $2/$4 game. It was on ESPN Phil G.'s show. I am not into charity enough to play $2/$4 right yet.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL...I guess the level depends on what you think "making a living is". I have been thinking that you could teach a bunch of kids from a third world country to play and beat 25NL and they would live like kings.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
I listened to a podcast of a guy who makes a living at poker, and he said you can't make a living on less than a $2/$4 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Single tabling, that's probably true. B&M, I think you might be able to barely eke out a miserable existence at $1-2 because the opponents are just so bad.

I'm at about 18 BBL/100 hands over 11k at NL25. That's about $4.50 per 100 hands. I'm no good at multitabling (no special equipment, not even PAHUD yet), but I can 4-table for about 250 hands per hour. So that's over $10/hour -- about what a lousy temp job would get me.

I'm in the process of moving up, and I think I can probably beat NL50 for less in big blinds but slightly more in dollars. Meanwhile, I'm working on my game which should help me beat these games for more and eventually play in bigger games.

[Splitrig]

EXACTLY! In India they have internet coffee houses where you rent a computer for $1 for they day. These guys come in and play the stock market for a day and make $5. That is multiples of what they would make working.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kaz: That is how I feel — a donator. I have stayed ahead, but not after the rake. I listened to a podcast of a guy who makes a living at poker, and he said you can't make a living on less than a $2/$4 game. It was on ESPN Phil G.'s show. I am not into charity enough to play $2/$4 right yet.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL...I guess the level depends on what you think "making a living is". I have been thinking that you could teach a bunch of kids from a third world country to play and beat 25NL and they would live like kings.

[/ QUOTE ]