Call the turn?

[SteelheadGLX]

Admittedly, still learning. Did not bet for value here on the flop, doubt it affected the outcome.

Do you call the utg+1 raise here?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
7 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12.25BB

[BigBadBabar]

hm, makes it tougher. i'd raise the flop. utg+1 could easily have top pair or a flush or str8 draw as a semibluff. he could just as easily have us dominated also, with 2 pair or a set. not sure if i want to 3bet the turn however.

raising the flop at least makes it a bigger pot so we have odds to call down [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Grease]

I probably just go ahead and raise the flop and collect those extra bets.

That said, I would really like a read on UTG+1, because I think all the options could be valid against the right type of opponent. I 3-bang LAGs, (probably TAG's too), but I would probably just call against a horribly passive player (tons of outs against two-pair).

That said, I would probably raise in the heat of the moment, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. I think we're ahead here quite often and can push our edge, but I don't really know how I would deal with getting capped if we go to three town, so that makes me a little more hesitant to raise.

I would still probably do it though.

[anotherFliplost]

Not raising that flop is pretty bad. You are often against TP here. You want the 5-outer 9's and weird A hands calling more bets to outdraw.

Online, that flop call/turn raise often indicates a set. Nonetheless, a bad UTG+1 could be playing overcards with a J, given the action. You are getting 3:1 to call down three bets, so it's probably correct to do so absent a read on UTG+1. I have no idea how close it is, though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[James.]

3bet the turn.

[fuzz66]

raise the flop!!!

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
3bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you call the flop, this is true.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you call the flop, this is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

One important concept I've noticed is discussed a lot on the Medium and High Stakes boards is the concept of appreciating how you have defined your hand. The way you have played your hand IS critical in determining the way that opponents play theirs, and it is therefore very important in determining your reads.

Here, by failing to raise the flop, we have indicated that we do not have an overpair. The raise on the turn by UTG+1 therefore is made given the premise that we do not have an overpair. Therefore, it is far more likely that his raise indicates either a semi-bluff or a one pair hand than it would have been if he had, say, check-raised us on the turn after we raised the flop.

As played, we should three-bet the turn, hope to force out UTG, and then tread somewhat lightly. I would generally follow through with a river value bet if my three-bet were called and the river were checked to me. If four-bet, I like calling the turn and folding the river unimproved, as we have a lot of outs to a counterfeit two pair.