When a read is not a read.

[@bsolute_luck]

this is the benefit of Paradise Poker...nothing works [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

my only reads are based on my notes of people. sadly i can't multitable do to my need to "watch everything", but i've found that as i play more, i get more confident and quicker in my reads because at this level people are straight forward.

one thing i've found easier is bluffing and betting for value. and like you said, lay downs become easier. one thing i've tried is to get better catagories of reads to put people in general camps. These are still being tweaked, but why not put them here and get your guy's opinions.

Preflop
Loose - anything. position unaware. High % of hands played. cold call frequently.
sL- semi-loose. semi-position aware (folding more EP). any pairs, suited, off suit connectors, any face card. cold calls with most of these.
sT- semi-tight Average. position aware. between 20%-40% hands played. cold call LP & blinds (with a good hand), pairs, suited connectors, suited face cards. close to 2+2 recommendations and a little looser.
Tight <20% hands played. not necesaarily position aware. only high pocket pairs, overcards. never cold calls.

Preflop Aggression
Aggressive - frequent raise, 3-bet, position unaware.
sA- semi-aggressive will raise, 3-bet.
sP- semi-passive raises if folded too & blind steals LP/blinds, rarely 3-bets.
Passive - rarely raises PRF, might raise AA-QQ. position unaware, doesn't c/r

Postflop
Loose- goes to river with anything, any pair, draw, rarely folds.
sL-semi-Loose- any piece, sees at least turn, rarely folds
sT- generally 2+2er
Tight- only goes past flop with solid hand on flop. easily bluffed if marginal to weak hands.

Postflop Aggression
Aggressive- raises/reraises with anything- draws, pairs, sometimes nothing.
sA- raises any piece, reraises with above 2 pair and strong draws
sP semi-passive- raises only with solid holding that look best, won't bet draws
Passive calls down with top pair, nuts, and never/rarely reraises. if he does, be very careful!

Typical: sLsP-sLsP

So far, you can pretty much start to put people in some camps almost immediately even after you've seen 1 showdown hand. I do better with "hands on" reads rather than stats, but thats just me. it does restrict me to 2-tabling max right now.

i'm trying to use this sort of "general" system because i have too many "plays AQo MP and calls to river UI" and other such things, that i get more confused than helped when needing to make quick decisions.

[car ramrod]

Good post
I agree that the numbers, although helpful, cannot be the only thing you use. I take notes like a mad man. It's really helpful, you'd be suprised how people never change their betting habits.
If you note that they don't bet their draws, or that they call down with A high when bet into, they tend to be this way the whole seesion. If they are predictable, note that, and its easier to make a fold when they decide to raise.

[Bodhi]

Hey, I didn't even know I could do that! Thanx! That helps a lot.

[SomethingClever]

Nice post. I did this during my Two Week Challenge (which also involved not checking my balance at all), and it really helped me focus.

Now I mostly use GT to make sure the table hasn't gone tight... not so much for individual reads.

[SlantNGo]

Wow, I can't believe I've never used Import/Export Notes before. This opens up a lot of possibilities for post-game analysis. For example, one could potentially go through HHs after a session and take more detailed notes on specific hands then export them back into your poker client. I think that could be useful at any limit besides 0.5/1 where the turnaround is huge.

I only play two tables at a time, so I'm usually watching one hand all the way through on one of them if possible. If not, I look back in the HH to see the full action before writing a note. I try to focus on pots that were raised or short handed, so most of my notes look like:

-PFR KJs EP, bet Qxx flop, c/f turn blank

or for hands where I couldn't see a player's cards, something a bit more vague but still helpful such as:

-Bet flop & turn and laid down to turn raise on 3-flush card

I think you're right that some players are relying on PV/GT+ too much, but I think it's still very helpful to have it up while playing. I played 1k hands at Gaming Club 0.5/1 and didn't find myself taking any more notes than I do at Party, just not having as much of a "fallback" read as I'm used to having.

[AlmightyJay]

This describes exactly how I take notes on people when I play on Stars.

[tiltaholic]

Great post. again. I hate those x/y/z "reads" expecially when it's over 40 hands...

I've been playing on Pokerroom w/o Gametime and it's been fun and mentally challenging (read - not boring limit grind) to be attentive and keep real reads on players (like I used to). Not to mention that it is much more lucrative too!

So I think I'm firmly off GT for the time being.

[chipolino]

I'll take that challenge since I'm very weak-tight. I was just wondering if you just write notes on the plays of your opponents only when they have shown their hand. Or their play in general.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll take that challenge since I'm very weak-tight. I was just wondering if you just write notes on the plays of your opponents only when they have shown their hand. Or their play in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

generally its stuff they showdown

things to look out for that aren't SD related, are ppl that LRR w/junk(or the goods) .. ppl that limp but fold to a single raise preflop

[Entity]

I think it's probably time to bump this thread. Sorry to all those who got all pissed at me the last time, but I just saw this in a thread:

[ QUOTE ]
utg+2 is 56/0, total fish over the first 16 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and with no malice, etc., meant to the person who posted it, something needs to be said. Cuz 16 hands and 56/0 does not a read provide.