Optimal ante/bring in structure for various game sizes

[*TT*]

Tell me what you think is the optimal ante/bringin structure for the following limits. Assume the format is a mixed game including all three of the major stud variants. This topic was discussed last night at the Wynn, their 20/40 game includes a $3 ante and a $5 bring in.

4/8
10/20
15/30
20/40
30/60
40/80
75/150

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[cgrohman]

Does the Wynn reguarly spread stud? Their 20/40 structure is the same as Commerce and Foxwoods. Based on my nitty play, I generaly prefer a $1 ante and $3 bring in at $10/$20 and the same structure proportionally appleid ot higher stakes.

[HOWMANY]

Higher ante, at least a 1/6 small bet like 30/60 Stars structure. The 10/20 games online would be even better if it made some of the crappy nit regulars actually play some hands.

I'd think a 1/4 ante would be better for 20/40 to make up for the smaller BI.

This is for Stud 8, but I feel about the same for Razz. I prefer the nit structure in Stud because I don't know how to play, so the more I fold the less I lose.

[blumpkin]

4/8 1/2
10/20 2/4
15/30 2/5
20/40 3/5
30/60 5/10
40/80 not sure - never seen 40 stud before
Is it 10$ chips? Then 10/20 is the only way I guess.
75/150 15/25

I agree the best structure is the 30/60/5/10.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the Wynn regularly spread stud? Their 20/40 structure is the same as Commerce and Foxwoods. Based on my nitty play, I generally prefer a $1 ante and $3 bring in at $10/$20 and the same structure proportionally applied tohigher stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont like a higher ante to induce action?

In Sklansky on Razz he lists the 15/30 game as $1 ante, $5 bring in - and since the bring in-completion ratio is poor players should be slightly tighter on 3rd. Conversely the 30/60 game is a a $5 ante, $10 bring in.

15 game ante: 1/15th of a small bet, or 8/15th in an 8 handed game
30 game ante: 1/6th of a small bet, or 1 1/10 of a small bet in an 8 handed game
15 game bringin: 1/5th of a small bet
30 game bringin: 1/3rd of a small bet


Hence you can see where this discussion came from, we want to induce action yet not have the ante ratio too high that it busts players too quickly.

PS: Wynn spreads any game you bring them.

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[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]


I agree the best structure is the 30/60/5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, thats what I was thinking as well. I recall a similar structure at the Borgata 75/150 game, but I haven't played it yet (looks soft enough even with Jeffage sitting in).

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[Andy B]

I think that the ideal structure is that used for $30/60, which has a $5 ante and $10 bring-in. This can be used for limits like $3/6, $6/12, $60/120, and $3000/6000 if you have the right denominations of chips available. For the limits you mention:

$4/8--$.50 ante and $1 force. I think a $3/6 game with the same ante and force is better.

$10/20--I would like to see this limit dry up and blow away. The standard $1 ante is too small, which makes for tight, nitty games. It's OK live, because people still gamble, but online $10/20 games tend to suck. I'd prefer to see this limit replaced by standard $15/30, but if there is some magic in $10/20, make the ante $1.50.

$15/30--standard $2 ante and $5 bring-in is best.

$20/40--standard $3 ante and $5 bring-in is best. The ante is plenty high enough, and quarter-bet bring-ins are much, much better than half-bet bring-ins.

$30/60--covered.

$40/80--best not to have this limit. Either offer standard $30/60 or $50/100, which has a $10 ante and $15 bring-in. $5 is too small an ante for this limit, and $10 is too high. If you must have a $40/80 game, make the ante about $8 and the force $10.

$75/150--standard $15 ante and $25 bring-in is probably best. The ante should be a little higher than lower limits so that Jeffage doesn't win every time.

Stud has been played in casinos for a long time, and they've had plenty of time to come up with structures that work. The standard structures became standard for a reason.

[DeathDonkey]

Cindy Violette (very good stud player) told me the other day she thought the $50 ante/ $50 bringin at 150/300 "wasn't that bad, at 200/400 it would be perfect". High ante is the way to go I think, it won't bust people too quickly there is plenty of luck in stud.

-DeathDonkey

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Cindy Violette (very good stud player) told me the other day she thought the $50 ante/ $50 bringin at 150/300 "wasn't that bad, at 200/400 it would be perfect". High ante is the way to go I think, it won't bust people too quickly there is plenty of luck in stud.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you loved the game, but I think $50 ante is a bit high for that format. I'd rather see $25 Ante, $50 force, $150 completion.

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[Jacob_Gilliam]

In the lower stakes games that I used to play on Pacific, the low antes, low bring in were perfect, if only because you opponents played so badly. this was at 3/6 and 5/10. Higher antes make their play closer to being correct. So what size antes you want id very dependent on the quality of you opponents.