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  #1  
Old 01-11-2007, 09:43 PM
Mhoram Mhoram is offline
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Default Best hand, but not for long..

Are there times when you think you probably have the best hand on a board with draws, but you don't think it's strong enough to try to 'protect'?

Full ring no limit cash game. You see the flop against two other players.

You hold: AsTh
Flop: Tc9c4d

You've got top pair top kicker, and you are probably ahead, but eight hands that beat you now and about a million cards to come that could give someone a better hand.

Right now you lose to AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 44, and 9T.

Hand reading lets you rule out a couple of those maybe, although there are those tricky players..

But the real deal is the number of scare cards to come..

444, 999, 6666, 8888, JJJJ, QQQQ, KKKK, Ac, 7c, 5c, 3c, 2c.

That's 31 out of 47 cards to come (2/3) that COULD give someone a better hand if you're ahead right now, something you aren't sure of, and you've got two cards to come.

I just wonder if it's worth your trouble to go any farther with this hand? I hate putting anything in on the flop when I know i'll probably have to fold if I get raised on the turn or river, i'd rather just walk away now and wait for a more profitable situation.

In all honesty i'll probably bet the flop, standard 1/2 pot and hope to win it now, if I get a caller or two what do I do when one of these many scare cards hit the turn or river (or both). Keep betting and wait to get reraised or show weakness by checking, hoping to showdown and probably get raised?

The whole situation is just one tough decision after another and might be best avoided altogether. Thoughts playing a decent but not great hand against multiple draws? Feel free to expand into better hands like an over pair or ace/king top pair top kicker hands.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:23 PM
Kimbell175113 Kimbell175113 is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

1. Be in position. It's too late now, but it really does help.
2. You don't want to play a big pot.
3. Otherwise, it's all about your opponents. If they'll fold too much, take a shot; if they'll bet too much, check and call. After that, it gets more complicated and you just have to, you know, play poker.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:39 PM
Mhoram Mhoram is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

You mean it depends??? I hate this game! lol

I'll tell you this though, i'm looking foward to SSNL providing some tips on how to keep a pot small. Small hands = small pots, no joke, okay tell me how to go about that.
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2007, 04:40 AM
Gonso Gonso is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

Checking behind when in position, defensive bets when out of position. Attention to bet sizing.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2007, 04:57 AM
Lee_C Lee_C is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

If this is a family pot then I agree you have a lot to worry about.
You should have raised pre-flop and the 9,10 or 9,4 hands would be gone as well as most straight draws.
In either case the flop is not bad for you. I would lead out to protect (and see where I am at) if you get raised by one of your pre-flop raise callers you know you are behind. It would take a pretty big hand to raise your pot size bet knowing that you raised pre-flop and then led out. Fold it and move on... That is poker.
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2007, 05:41 AM
Kojak1984 Kojak1984 is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

[ QUOTE ]
If this is a family pot then I agree you have a lot to worry about.
You should have raised pre-flop and the 9,10 or 9,4 hands would be gone as well as most straight draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You see the flop against two other players.
[/quote/
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2007, 08:33 AM
Mclane665 Mclane665 is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

I like this question as this is what poker is all about. I would move in on the pot with about 80-100% bet. That should narrow down the str8 draws but a Ax clubs might stick around. An over pair might slow play you but its unlikely in this situation. If the next card is not a club I would move in again. The most important thing to remember is in poker nearly every card can beat you if you use your imagination and let it. Just think of the most likely holdings compared to how the opponents are betting. Forget most of the str8 draws as they are unlikley still around after your bet. If your in position keep this pot small but deny the odds he needs if he is calling with clubs. If a club comes that is not the A i would probably fold to a bet if the Ac comes It would take a big bet to shake me off this pot.
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2007, 09:48 AM
Mr. Pulaski Mr. Pulaski is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

I think you have to take a shot here since you most likely have the lead. I would also advise a pot sized bet as opposed to a 1/2 pot and here is why. 1/2 pot is simply going to get you a call far too often in this situation and you are not going to gain the information you need to make a quality decision on the turn this way. If one or two players call you, do you bet out on the turn, get called again, and then sucked out on the river? If you bet pot on the flop, then it will be more difficult for those drawing hands to call so you very well may take it down here. If you are called, then you should check the turn because you are probably up against a ligitamate hand, maybe 44. I think that if you get called or raised and give up the hand now or on the turn you will have less in the pot betting this hand stronger on the flop, than you would by betting smaller bets down to the river. Also, it is your best chance at taking this pot down early. I hope this was helpful.

Mr. Pulaski
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2007, 11:51 AM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

[ QUOTE ]
Are there times when you think you probably have the best hand on a board with draws, but you don't think it's strong enough to try to 'protect'?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/Implied_...e_implied_odds
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2007, 12:30 PM
Lee_C Lee_C is offline
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Default Re: Best hand, but not for long..

Sorry I didn't catch the two players. Thanks Kojak1984
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