J9s turns a flush, river very scary

[tjfields]

No reads. What is my river play, either the first time around or the second time around?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(3.5:1)</font>, 2 folds, 2 folds, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.75BB, 3 players)
MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(8.75:1)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero ???

[unterfish]

I think you are committed to at least call.
Im between calling and raising.
Since its a raise in front of you, I just call.

[fretelöo]

Ugly. There are exactly two hearts that you win against: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

So, I guess there's a definite case for folding here: If noone has the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], someone will definitely have a Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]+ most of the time.

However, first time, it's 9:1 to you and you'll probably be good often enough, and the second time you get 13:1 and are closing the action. I would call as someone might have rivered 2pair or a set/str8 every now and then.

[unterfish]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugly. There are exactly two hearts that you win against: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

So, I guess there's a definite case for folding here: If noone has the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], someone will definitely have a Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]+ most of the time.

However, first time, it's 9:1 to you and you'll probably be good often enough, and the second time you get 13:1 and are closing the action. I would call as someone might have rivered 2pair or a set/str8 every now and then.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? Why only 8 or T of hearts?
Hero has the 4th best flush which is no good probably, but good enough to call on the river IMO.

[psy]

I'd find a fold. Sure the river bet could mean any middling flush but I don't see anyone raising with a ten high flush or worse here.

[boss]

Fold. After the river check-bet-call-c/r-call-? I dont expect to be good here even 1 out of 13 times..

[psy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero has the 4th best flush which is no good probably, but good enough to call on the river IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus amy 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero's hand sucks.

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? Why only 8 or T of hearts?
Hero has the 4th best flush which is no good probably, but good enough to call on the river IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] make someone a str8-flush.

[unterfish]

Yes. IMO this is NOT a big laydown.
I think we should still call. We have a jack-high flush! A nice hand. Fearing a straight-flush is too weak. But Im hearing the people fearing a better flush.
So... dont raise. Just call.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. IMO this is NOT a big laydown.
I think we should still call. We have a jack-high flush! A nice hand. Fearing a straight-flush is too weak. But Im hearing the people fearing a better flush.
So... dont raise. Just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

a straight flush IS a better flush.
and it's not weak to consider it when it only takes one card. raising this river would be insane.