How many Harvards?

[Case Closed]

My school is the harvard of law enforcement education.

[xorbie]

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The truth is that these "Harvard-like" claims usually suggest an insecurity about the status of the school. Indeed, Wash U (when I went there) was full of people who didn't quite have the grades for their first choice schools.

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QFT

Also, same tuition rates as Harvard with a school on your resume that no one really cares about. No thanks.

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One could also say it's funny because people from Harvard get all pissed off and thinking anyone gives a [censored].

[gamblore99]

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I went to the Harvard of Canada, lol

(McGill)

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I've heard "harvard of the north" used to describe the university of toronto once or twice, but it's extremely uncommon. u of t students (and profs) generally think fairly highly of the institution, and wouldn't put themselves below harvard like that.

it's much more common to hear how easy harvard is/how hard u of t is, cuz everyone gets As at harvard and everyone fails at u of t.

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hahaha, I have only heard it for Queens.

[DrewDevil]

Huh-huh-huh. Harvard is the Duke of the North, huh-huh-huh.

God I hate those lame jokes.

I know a few people who went to Harvard, and it's now become fashionable for Harvard people to say "Boston" when asked where they go to school.

You know, because the other person should just know that means Harvard and the person is too humble to say the actual word.

Stuck up prigs.

[Aloysius]

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FWIW, I went to Harvard. I think many liberal arts schools offer the same quality of undergraduate education as Harvard.

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Other schools have professors of the same quality, but half of what I remember from Harvard is stuff I learned from my classmates, especially my rooming group. YMMV.

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While this is of course true, the implication that this could only happen at Harvard is pretty silly. If you're serious enough about looking you can find smart people almost anywhere. And even at good schools there are plenty of borderline anti-intellectuals who are there just because they can be. Based solely on the comparative merits of the education you receive, I think going to really prestigious undergraduate institutions is probably overrated in a lot of ways.

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Gump - I'm about as non-elitist as you get, but I'd have to disagree with you. The % of the population at a prestigious undergrad that is "smart to very smart" is way higher than at a "lesser" institution. I'm basing this on anecdotal evidence of course (e.g. comparing my undergrad popualation to say, people I work with, and also from what friends mention to me) but that's my sense.

So at a prestigious undergrad, you have to do a lot less work, if any at all, to meet fellow undergrads that you can learn from, have stimulating convo with etc. etc. Agreed that the quality of education from professors / classes is comparable along most major universities / colleges, but I think it's a fairly large edge to have a much smarter student body.

Also, of course, having a H-Y-P stamped on your resume (even just undergrad) goes a long way wrt career stuff.

-Al

[BWebb]

<<<<<< I heard BBV was the OOT of the North.

[gumpzilla]

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Gump - I'm about as non-elitist as you get, but I'd have to disagree with you. The % of the population at a prestigious undergrad that is "smart to very smart" is way higher than at a "lesser" institution. I'm basing this on anecdotal evidence of course (e.g. comparing my undergrad popualation to say, people I work with, and also from what friends mention to me) but that's my sense.

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Some background: I attended a prestigious liberal arts college as an undergrad, and I'm now a grad student at a large state institution. My exposure to undergrads as a grad student has largely been teaching premeds, who are definitely dumber on average than the undergrad counterparts I knew, and interacting with physics majors who come through labs, who are not dumber on average than their undergrad counterparts. Most of the best people I know here went to state schools.

What you're saying is true but I don't think it's the whole story. The issue isn't just how smart people are, but the degree to which they actually want to engage in thinking/discussion about interesting stuff. The percentage of the population likely to engage you in that way is going to be higher at elite undergraduate institutions, but it still is going to be far from 100%. Tons of people are good at school, but view that largely as a commitment to getting good grades and doing the necessary work, not necessarily a lifestyle of trying to think about interesting things. These people are unlikely to teach you a bunch. Finding people who are into what they're doing and like talking about it will teach you a lot, but once you get past a certain threshold I think those people are everywhere. (It should also be said that the best of the best from, say, Harvard, are really, really good. I worked with some serious math guys from Harvard one summer and they were insanely good. So at the high, high end, there's some serious possibility afforded you as well. But this is not what most people going to college are interested in.)

While you are right that finding people to stimulate you is somewhat easier, based on my graduate experiences I would say it is far from impossible. Top notch schools probably do a better job of educating you despite yourself - and have a somewhat higher top end - but that's not the most compelling argument in their favor that I can think of. For people who are willing to invest effort in their education, many of the relative disadvantages can be overcome. That's why I think these schools are probably usually overvalued.

[NickMPK]

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FWIW, I went to Harvard. I think many liberal arts schools offer the same quality of undergraduate education as Harvard.

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Other schools have professors of the same quality, but half of what I remember from Harvard is stuff I learned from my classmates, especially my rooming group. YMMV.

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While this is of course true, the implication that this could only happen at Harvard is pretty silly. If you're serious enough about looking you can find smart people almost anywhere. And even at good schools there are plenty of borderline anti-intellectuals who are there just because they can be. Based solely on the comparative merits of the education you receive, I think going to really prestigious undergraduate institutions is probably overrated in a lot of ways.

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Gump - I'm about as non-elitist as you get, but I'd have to disagree with you. The % of the population at a prestigious undergrad that is "smart to very smart" is way higher than at a "lesser" institution. I'm basing this on anecdotal evidence of course (e.g. comparing my undergrad popualation to say, people I work with, and also from what friends mention to me) but that's my sense.

So at a prestigious undergrad, you have to do a lot less work, if any at all, to meet fellow undergrads that you can learn from, have stimulating convo with etc. etc. Agreed that the quality of education from professors / classes is comparable along most major universities / colleges, but I think it's a fairly large edge to have a much smarter student body.

Also, of course, having a H-Y-P stamped on your resume (even just undergrad) goes a long way wrt career stuff.

-Al

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I think you can find really smart and engaging classmates at any decent school if you look for them. But the Harvard student body is pretty unique. Even at Yale or Princeton, you won't find so many people who have had such astounding backgrounds, skills, or experiences. Every class has at least on famous child actor and several children of world leaders. I feel other Ivys tend to attract mostly excellent, well-rounded, well-adjusted students who have been meticulously building their college resumes for years while Harvard gets a lot more "extreme" presonalities who are amazing at one thing.

[Aloysius]

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I think you can find really smart and engaging classmates at any decent school if you look for them.

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I agree with both you and Gump on this point.

Gump's post is really good, especially his comment about the "highest end" of learning.

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I feel other Ivys tend to attract mostly excellent, well-rounded, well-adjusted students who have been meticulously building their college resumes for years while Harvard gets a lot more "extreme" presonalities who are amazing at one thing.

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This is the reputation (I went to Yale dunno from personal experience) - and from what I've heard seems to be true. I mean it's kind of splitting hairs though, also perhaps having so many extreme personalities is why it seems most Harvard undergrads are miserable [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]?

-Al

[srjunkacct]

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Huh-huh-huh. Harvard is the Duke of the North, huh-huh-huh.

God I hate those lame jokes.

I know a few people who went to Harvard, and it's now become fashionable for Harvard people to say "Boston" when asked where they go to school.

You know, because the other person should just know that means Harvard and the person is too humble to say the actual word.


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Or perhaps because mentioning the word "Harvard" tends to bring many casual conversations to a screeching halt.