Toney vs Peter 1/6

[Tuds75]

from Fightnews.com

"Peter 249, Toney 234!

Samuel Peter outweighed James Toney by 15 pounds for their SHOWTIME-televised rematch on Saturday night at the Seminole Hard Rock LIVE Arena in Hollywood, FL. Toney weighed in first at 234, one pound more than the first fight, although his body looked to be in much better shape. Peter scaled in at 249, eight pounds less than in their first fight. The Peter camp selected Reyes gloves, while the Toney group selected Everlast."

Don't forget the Reyes gloves are the punchers gloves and they are the ones PacMan mad a big deal about not being able to wear them against Morrales and then when he got to wear them against Morrales he KO'ed him twice. Just something to think about.

Tuds

[Glenn]

Those Reyes gloves are going to do a lot of damage to the air around James Toney when Peter's winging those wide shots!

Seriously though, I don't really have a strong opinion of who will win, I just found value in the Toney DEC line which only requires him to win by DEC 34.1% of the time to be profitable. I think Toney is being slightly undervalued as a whole, and Toney KO/TKO/DQ is being overvalued. The combination of these things leads to what I believe is at least a 10% edge.

If you assume Peter is the FAV, do you think Peter KO/TKO/DQ is overvalued at +374 or are you just going to take the -118?

[Tuds75]

Get a load of Toney. He looks like he always has at Heavy. I guess those rumors about diets, carb cutting, Billy Blanks, and Tae Bo are F-A-L-S-E.





Peter looking trim and in good fighting shape, while Toney again looks like he spent as much time in the ring as he has at the table.

Tuds

[Glenn]

Ha. Yeah 218 didn't happen huh?

[Robin Foolz]

very hard to pick a fighter (peter) when his only shot at winning is by ko'ing a fighter (toney) that has only been knocked down twice and never been ko'ed in 78 professional fights. peter is a very strong dude, but strong alone does not make you a winner in boxing--not when in versus guys like toney and especially not when toney holds the edge 10-0 in very single 'skill' category because peter has 0 boxing ability.

even at 38, toney still has too much elusiveness, speed, chin, and accurate punching versus a fighter like peter, whose a clubber with absolutely no skills and terrible, terrible stamina. toney's stamina in recent bouts has been laughable, but it's still 2x better than peter's.

my prediction: toney being the more active, accurate puncher will be able to keep a more consistent attack than peter because of toney's better stamina, but because peter also has a great chin, i see toney only winning by points rather than ko.

[Robin Foolz]

about the weight: toney only weighs one pound more than he did for the first fight--a fight many thought he won. many boxing analysts and people in the media thought toney won the first fight, even the wbc organization (the belt they are hoping to fight for) thought so, prompting the wbc to call an immediate rematch to this bout (the first one was an elimination bout to see who would fight the champ oleg maskaev). being forced to rematch by the wbc indicates that they really thought the judges scoring the first fight majorly screwed up. being that toney basically is in no worse condition than his last fight (one he essentially won), i don't see how he is anything other that a pretty big favorite the second time around.

[Tuds75]

[ QUOTE ]
very hard to pick a fighter (peter) when his only shot at winning is by ko'ing a fighter (toney)

[/ QUOTE ]

This must be a mis-type because this quote is TOTALLY 100% FALSE . Peter already beat James Toney and not only that he beat him by going all 12 rounds and getting a Decision over him. So he alreay has proven that Toney doesn't need to KO Toney to beat him.

Toney's weight will always be an issue. I don't care what his weight is along as it is above 230 its too much for him (and I am being generous with 230, Toney would/could be champ if he got down to 225, but that is not happening). He cardio is shot, Billy Blanks is his fitness trainer...COME ONE is that for real. Imagine Toney standing in front of a TV watching Blanks kicking and punching and Toney trying to follow Blank's lead. Don't forget that Toney is 38 and is winding up a career (Don't bring up Bernard Hopkins). Toney's skill is still there, but so is the gut and biztch teets.

Tuds

[Robin Foolz]

is not a typo. they wouldn't be fighting again if the wbc thought peter won the first fight, would they? the decision was wrong according to the public and media alike but, most importantly, it was wrong in the eyes of the wbc. hence why the wbc ordered an immediate rematch due to (real quote) "controversial scoring of the first fight." toney was without a doubt the consensus better fighter in the first fight, regardless of the mistakes of two judges scoring the fight. peter and toney are fighting again to reverse these mistakes and to give the chance for the better fighter (toney) to fight oleg.

and i disagree that a mere 5 pound difference in the heavyweight division turns fighters into champions.

[Robin Foolz]

btw, even though toney came in one pound heavier than the first fight, these pictures seem to suggest he is in better shape. the first pic is the weight-in at their first fight. the second pic is of their second fight.

[Tuds75]

Ok I don't even know where to begin.

Obviously you did not watch the first fight live, but in no way did Toney dominate enough to earn the victory, but Peter did not dominate either. Both fighters could have made a case for winning that fight. It was a close fight no doubt, but to think that Toney was robbed is redicioulous.

The WBC is joke and fraud of a boxing organization. There previous fight was to determine who would fight Oleg, and for some reason Peter won a close fight, a spilt decision, but for some reason they have to do it over again. WHY, Peter won, so what if it was close, this is boxing there are close fights all the time, titles even change hands on close fights. So the WBC claiming bad scoring makes no sense because they appoint the judges so any incompetance should reflect on them. Not to mention their history of making some of the most idiotic moves in boxing is well documented (look at some reasons they have stripped titles from fighters and some mandatorys they have lined up).

Absolutley 5 pounds makes a difference in fighting, even heavyweights. If a fighter can't maintain a weight it shows something about the fighter himself, maybe a lack of training or focus, maybe an injure. In Toney's case he is fighting at a weight already too much from him. Toney's ideal weight is 205 or cruiserweight. I have seen all of his fights in the last 5 years or since his last fight as a cruiser and he looked like a great cruiserweight, but as a heavyweight he looks fat, gassed, and lacking real power.

Here is James Toney during his best performance at heavyweight, KOing Holyfield in 2003. Toney weighed in at 217, coincedently the lightest he has been at a heavy.


Here is Toney at 227 against Rydell Booker. Sorry the pic is not bigger, but you can see the diffence in Toney's body.


Toney's weight is absolutely a concern and will be for as long as he keeps fighting. He will never come in good shape, but he has shown that he doesn't always need to be in the best shape to win, this is one of those times I think he needs to be in good shape.

Tuds