Full TIlt account frozen, stolen from genuine player.

[Synergistic Explosions]

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i don't care about the blackeye, im not out to get them, i want my money. 3 or 4 people have asked you to go away synergistic, yet u still stick around?

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Can you dig it Eric?

[batmanalan]

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chargeback involved is because I just don't see FTP catching "chip dumping" without a reason to trigger an investigation. I don't believe they would lock your account just for dumping chips in a heads up match (rather than using the transfer money feature), and if they are so paranoid as to lock people's accounts for doing that in the abscence of a money laundering scheme (stolen credit card funds) that is another huge strike against them. However, I highly doubt they would lock for dumping without a chargeback involved somehow.

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That's what makes me think. It wouldnt make sense for a large company to go through the trouble of screwing me and taking 9.5k without SOME red flag...i would hope. I just can't put together what it is as I have been legit since day one, and have a good repor with all players I've played with on FTP, and am well known in 2/4 and 5/10 9man. I raked them 2.7k in 3 weeks, why steal my money. I'lll make you that much in rake in 3 months. I don't plan to play heads up anymore, because it seems your responsible for both sides, and thats impossible.

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Talk to your friend. See if your beef is with him. If it's with him and not Full Tilt, report to us. Then maybe you could work on giving back what you won from him but keeping your legit winnings.

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on it.

[BurnleyMik]

Hi OP,

Take a look at this quote from doug the last time something like this happened (although you seem to have much more credibility than Eric)


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1. "Where has Doug been?"

- Thanks for asking! Thursday morning through the weekend I was in Paris. By the time I had gotten back from Paris and took at look at the ericjones thread, it had become such a monstrosity that commenting in it would have been mostly worthless, and I didn't want to start a new thread without more to report. So last night there was a meeting discussing, among other things, the ericjones thread. And now I'm here.

2. "I'm still not convinced ericjones is guilty! Why won't Doug post more details?"

- I'm not posting more details because I've posted enough details. Our methods of investigating fraud and the details of the results of the investigation are not for public consumption. However, I did just PM Mike Haven some more details regarding this specific case, and hopefully he will chime in on this thread and say whether or not he's convinced. Other than possibly providing Mike a few more details if he requests them, I'm done with this case.

3. "The communication between the fraud department and the player under investigation is terrible!"

- Much of the meeting last night was focused on the various concerns expressed in the threads relating to the fraud department (and related customer support dealings). A number of things were explained to me, and some policies were modified. The communication issue was the biggest modification:

Our new policy for communication between a player under investigation and customer support will start within 24 hours of the player's account being locked. They will receive an email stating that their account has been locked and letting the player know what they can expect during the investigation process.

During the investigation, we usually can't provide much in the way of detail regarding the investigation, but anything a player provides us that might speed the investigation along will certainly be welcomed. We will also strive to keep the player updated on any progress made, although setting timelines for the completion of the investigation will almost always be impossible.

And finally, the biggest change in the communication policy, when the investigation is over and the decision has been made, the player will be provided a post-investigation summary that describes (at a high level) the reason for the investigation and the results. If found guilty, the player should then have enough information to defend himself (or, way more likely, go away quietly knowing he was caught).

4. "Why do the investigations take so long?"

- The ericjones investigation took a little over 7 weeks (September 7th - November 2nd). This is not the average time it takes an investigation, but it also isn't all that rare for an investigation to take this long. The fact is, the actual investigation part of the vast majority of investigations are done within 2 weeks (and usually under a week). A lot of the "investigation" is actually just waiting for the credit card chargebacks to come through and confirm the fraud. Often times, this can take a month or more (a person doesn't realize their credit card has been stolen until they get their next bill, they have to actually look at and pay their bills in a timely manner, etc) and there's just nothing our fraud department can do to speed that up.

Having said all of that, we're definitely hiring more people for the fraud department and will do everything in our power to keep investigation times as short as possible.


5. "My account is locked and I'm totally innocent! I'm going to post about it and PM FTPDoug and make his life miserable."

- WAIT, WAIT! Another fantastic idea we had in this meeting was to relieve me of any and all fraud or support related duties. (To quote Dante Hicks, "I'm not even supposed to be here today!")

So as not to leave 2+2 in the lurch with nobody to complain to about that stuff, we got one of the lead support and fraud guys to create an account here. Say hello to FTPSean! From now on, FTPSean will be addressing support related issues and threads. He won't, however, be accepting PMs. If he were to accept PMs, your account details and specifics on your case would exist here in a PM box instead of in our support offices where it would do the most good. So if you have a very specific account related question, it's still best to email Support@fulltiltpoker.com . I have passed along any support related issues that have been sent to me via PMs, and in the future those should instead be sent via email to Support@FullTiltPoker.com for FTPSean and his teams to address. FTPSean will act as an escalated support liason to the 2+2 community. That is, he won't directly address specific account issues, but he will make sure that support addresses your account issue as soon as possible. He will also happily address support-specific policies and procedures.


Meanwhile, I'll be blissfully posting about the game itself, features, promotions, tournaments, and general non-support related questions.

As I sign off from dealing with this kind of issue ever again (please please), I just want to remind everyone that our main goal with all of these cases is to provide our players with a clean game. When mistakes are made (and I've been very forthright when we've made mistakes) we try to learn and improve from them. So, thanks to everyone that provided constructive feedback in that massive thread and its offspring, and I hope we've addressed most of your concerns.

Look for a real answers thread soon after the next update! It's a good one.

(Here's an early answer: Resizable tables are not in this update.)

Doug


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[operaman]

Some of you guys need to turn on your spidy sense.

it is important for full tilt to keep the detection methods they use private.

All the indicators (as synergistic has already pointed out) point to the op being a scamer.


Some things that have not been mentioned yet. (i think)


Alan is good enough to be a winning poker player, but doesn't know how to find his hand histories.
He just happens to be away from his comp.
He doesn't know how to take a screen shot.
He is not smart enough to figure out how to take a screen shot.
He has no idea why chip dumping is a problem.



He seems to be too ignorant of basic things that most winning poker players would know.

Alan has been lying to us. He is playing the stupid winning poker player that is just in the wrong place at the wrong time guy.

Lets stop wasting our time on all this stuff till alan provides real evidence he is being treated unfairly.

a) hand histories of the heads up
b) screen shot transfer logs(both players) of the money trail.

[Gregg777]

My spidey sense indicates OP is a little more legit than most of the monkeys who come on here crying.

However, whether he is guilty or not, the time frame needs to be better managed.

[BurnleyMik]

Yeah I think that is still a major issue (the time for investigations to be complete). Doug said that FT were improving this and working on other issues that have arisen here and the other FT threads, but these improvements just seem to never to have happened.

Doug also said that FTPSean would be around to help with these cases, but I have seen a few threads regarding these sorts of issues recently and I dont think that FTPSean has posted on any of them (the ones I have read anyway).

[operaman]

why is the time frame unreasonable? When there is a chargeback it is in the hands of the credit card owner to explain the reasons for the chargeback. This process can take a long time. This is just one of the possible reasons an investigation can take a long time. I had one credit card dispute last 7 months.

Keep in mind, the reason for the sometimes long delays is becuase the site doesn't want to make a mistake. They want to have all the documentation in order. For instance, some people chargeback and when the company responds to the chargeback querry they remember(own up to)the billed amount.
If this is the case with full tilt, how can FT be expected to resolve the issue before they are certain they have been stiffed?

[Scott Davis]

If it makes ya feel any better, I screwed em' for about 2K. Seriously [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Gotmilk]

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why is the time frame unreasonable? When there is a chargeback it is in the hands of the credit card owner to explain the reasons for the chargeback. This process can take a long time. This is just one of the possible reasons an investigation can take a long time. I had one credit card dispute last 7 months.

Keep in mind, the reason for the sometimes long delays is becuase the site doesn't want to make a mistake. They want to have all the documentation in order. For instance, some people chargeback and when the company responds to the chargeback querry they remember(own up to)the billed amount.
If this is the case with full tilt, how can FT be expected to resolve the issue before they are certain they have been stiffed?

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My point is this player is a player with an established history of playing online poker and has a 2+2er who vouched for him. He shouldn't be banned because his buddy charged back after losing. Calling rivers with queen high is normal in heads up matches, and unless this player has a long history of chargeback fraud besides this, one occurence shouldn't close the account (Although I don't know the exact dollar amounts involved, say there was a $6000 chargeback and $1000 legit funds thats a little more suspicious).

For example, several years ago I made a $500 Fireypay deposit on Stars, forgetting that I had not updated the checking account from my old hometown bank account to the bank that I was using in college. I immediately called Firepay and asked them to please cancel the transaction and update it with my new checking account information. They said "no they couldn't do that, and we will resubmit the charge after it gets declined". Without a branch in my area, I had no way of depositing the funds in time to get them to clear, even for the second attempt. I ended up getting charged like $60 (a large amount to just get sucked away when you are in college) from my other bank from the 2 NSF's that I got, and I told Firepay they wouldn't see a dime from me until they reimbursed me the $60. Needless to say, I can't use Firepay anymore. But the problem was Stars then closed my account--as I had gone busto from the $500 deposit. It was so long ago that I played, but in the early days of Stars, curtains and I often played together so there is a good chance I could have lost some of that money to curtains. Should curtains therefore be banned and have all his money taken from Pokerstars?

A couple weeks of stewing later, I opened a Neteller account and reimbursed Stars the $500 and the reopened my account. This was all shortly after Paypal stopped doing gambling transactions, so we are talking way back in the day. Somehow I doubt that I could get the account reopened that easily in that instance, though a NSF is a far cry different from a chargeback I admit.

[batmanalan]

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My point is this player is a player with an established history of playing online poker and has a 2+2er who vouched for him. He shouldn't be banned because his buddy charged back after losing. Calling rivers with queen high is normal in heads up matches, and unless this player has a long history of chargeback fraud besides this, one occurence shouldn't close the account (Although I don't know the exact dollar amounts involved, say there was a $6000 chargeback and $1000 legit funds thats a little more suspicious).


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this is a good point, even if he is lying to me, that was a small fraction of my account. And if he was playing fraudulently, I don't see how I am suppposed to know that. If thats the case, i do feel severely let down.