About the PokerRoom X-mas tourney

[PokerRoom.com]

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Continuing and still ongoing involvement with Futurebet?

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I've heard about the FutureBet issue, and let me assure you that I'm not particulary happy about that situation either. However, we at PokerRoom.com do not decide who joins the Ongame Network. And none of the FutureBet skins are even part of the network any more.


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Highest rake in the industry

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About the rake; Yes, it's above average on some limits but also a lot below average on other limits. The total rake we take out, all limits put together, is somewhere in the middle among sites, certainly not among the top. We actually ran a simulation of our total rake across all limits and compared us to our competitors to find out this. (Do note that some competitors have a max rake of $4 or even more, and some sites even rake in Euros.) But for the players who play at limits where our rake is above average, I'm happy to tell you that our rake system will be adjusted. Apparently it will smooth out those differences.


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You got players to sign up for a tournament thinking it was for $19,000 guaranteed

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And how do you know why they signed up? In all of our promotional material we have clearly stated that the top prize was a flat screen TV. We sent out newsletter about this, we had a pop-up about it in the game client, and we had a big creative about it on our front page. And in the end we let them keep the accidentally added money anyway, which is fine by me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we have handled the whole situation well, in fact I'm saying the opposite. But do give us an even shake here, you are assuming the worst case scenario and stating it like it was a fact.

Sincerely,
Oskar Hornell
Founder of PokerRoom.com

[Gotmilk]

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I recently claimed that PokerRoom sent a promotional email stating that the xmas tourney would have a $19k guaranteed prize pool. This in fact is INCORRECT and my statement was due to an error on my part.

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Apology accepted. But do you see now how easy it is for negative rumours to spread? No one likes to be called a crook or a liar. We made a mistake in our tourney (and the way it was handled) but we didn't do it to cheat anyone.

As some of you have noticed, I'm speaking my mind here and I get a little personal. I don't work for support and I'm not within corporate communications either. I'm probably too involved in the company to have that cool distance that perhaps would be better for public statements. In the near future, we'll get someone like that to handle the public posting for us. The only reason I'm here is that I felt that the issue needed to be resolved and commented on right away.

I'd also like to think that, given a little time, we can improve the parts that need improving (customer communication etc).

Sincerely,
Oskar Hornell
Founder of PokerRoom.com

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This is making me sick. That e-mail is totally irrelevant to what happened; whether or not that e-mail exists PokerRoom.com dropped the ball and deserved all the negative publicity that they got. If the guarantee had been $190,000 I might have been a lot more sympathetic to your case, as that is an obvious error. A $19,000 X-Mas guarantee on a $22 tourney is perfectly natural, and anybody wandering into the site to play it (whether they had been playing it because they got an e-mail or had just happened upon it) should have no reason to doubt its validity. Beyond that, given your course of action, you still should have refunded every player their $22 buyin, as the tournament, given your definition, should have been rated as "no action".

I don't understand how you continue to blame us for your negative publicity/negative rumours, and quite frankly I don't think the other poster should have apologized for his misinformation, as his misinformation wasn't germane to the issue at hand.

[2461Badugi]

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I don't usually handle support or communication issues

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You probably should have kept it that way. You're posts have only compounded the problem.


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Well, compared to their actual support/communication people's handling of the matter, he looks pretty good. I'd like to hear what he has to say about the widely-reported shennanigans on their own forum.

Also, great post Adanthar.

[2461Badugi]

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I've heard about the FutureBet issue, and let me assure you that I'm not particulary happy about that situation either. However, we at PokerRoom.com do not decide who joins the Ongame Network.

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Is this a joke? As well as beeing a PR founder, you're one of the two founders of OnGame, and you and your family owned 53% of OnGame stock when it was bought by Bet and Win. This is a matter of public record, and extremely easy to find. You clearly had oversight when Futurebet was brought on board, and since the Futurebet rogue problem was going on for quite a while before B&W bought you out, trying to dodge responsibility for it is ridiculous.

[PokerRoom.com]

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As well as beeing a PR founder, you're one of the two founders of OnGame, and you and your family owned 53% of OnGame stock when it was bought by Bet and Win. This is a matter of public record, and extremely easy to find. You clearly had oversight when Futurebet was brought on board, and since the Futurebet rogue problem was going on for quite a while before B&W bought you out, trying to dodge responsibility for it is ridiculous.

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At the time, I had about 16% of the stock (and much less now of course after the sale). I was not the CEO, not the COO or even part of the board of directors. I did not, and don't now either, work at the Ongame Network part of the organisation. And for the record, I did object to the FB deal when the it was presented, but that was not my decision to make. The fact is, that stock owners rarely run the companies they own stock in, or even founded. That's what the management and the board are for.

Sincerely,
Oskar Hornell
Founder of PokerRoom.com

[AntonHeat]

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It was your glitch, so it was your obligation to honour it.

If i went on your site having not seen the promotional material, i only see 19K gtd - the fact that you dont mention it in your promo material doesnt negate this.

In fact im pretty sure under ANY court of law you were obligated to honour the 19K guarantee.

For you to think it acceptable after the tournament is over to turn around and hold up your hands blaming a software glitch and take away the money that you clearly offered, THEN weeks later reverse your decision after there is huge uproar AND think people will just bend over and continue playing with you, i hope you will be shocked.

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basically ya, you guys [censored] up hard just man up and admit you are guilty and people will forgive overtime.

[suzzer99]

Correct play on 2p2 for Mr. PokerRoom.com: I am very sorry. Some underlings made a mistake by offering the wrong guarantee. Then they COMPOUNDED that mistake by taking money out of players' accounts w/o their knowledge. All the money has been refunded. We deeply regret this incident ever occurred and sincerely hope you will all give us another chance to earn back your trust.

Incorrect play on 2p2 for Mr. PokerRoom.com: what you said

[Synergistic Explosions]

I've seen mistakes like this happen before in tournament payouts that were in error. They always happened when special prizes or extras were to be given in lieu of cash payouts.

Since I was informed beforehand, I knew the payouts listed were wrong and never expected the payouts if I won. However, I also knew that some players in the tourney would have no clue and be very upset.

So seeing your reply makes total sense to me. Seeing the reaction of others is what I expected also. It's a total no win situation for the site.

I personally don't think players should expect payouts that were in error, regardless of what they think, if the site can prove the error in earlier published statements concerning said tournament.

It really is a tough situation though for both the players involved and the site. When I once won more than I knew I deserved, I sure hoped they would let me keep what was given in error. However, when it was taken away, I expected it and didn't feel I was cheated.

So I guess it all depends on if the players involved knew or didn't know what the correct payouts should have been. If they didn't know, then they definately have a case for being cheated.

Tough tough situation to be in for both player and site.

[N 82 50 24]

Great post adanthar.

I made a pretty negative blog post about this issue (see profile for link to blog) -- I am really appalled that a major site could possibly handle this situation so poorly. However, I do want to say that I am glad that PokerRoom is FINALLY speaking about this issue even if their PR savvy is lacking. Regardless of Oskar's somewhat argumentative tone, at least he's here and posting. That alone is a good thing and I'd like for it to continue. In my mind, any communication (except for the obvious exceptions) between the sites and the players is a good thing, so keep it coming.

I'd like to hear more about the changing rake structure and how PokerRoom plans on doing more to communicate effectively with players.

[Pokeraddict]

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But you know what? Forget the 19K, it's small potatoes. I just want to know why you're here over the 19K but not over Futurebet. Which one do you think is more important?


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This is something I was wondering too. It's funny how when Bayou, Carnaval, Pokes many other skins default on $500,000-$1,000,000 nobody at PR cares. Now when PR screws up over $19,000 they hit the forum to come talk to us.

Great post