Rebuy satelites theory

[valenzuela]

My theory on rebuys is to rebuy and add-on every time its possible.( standard)
My theory on satelites is none at all. Im just throwing a possible theory that it may be better to not rebuy with 1500 chips.( this number could go as down as 700 chips or something)
This aplies to pokerstars satelites in which 6% of the field gets paid. If we had a considerably lower portion of the field play then I would advocate normal rebuying.

[TakenItEasy]

At the beginning of a tournament, the chips are worth exactly what is paid for them if you are an average player. For a player who has double the chance to take a satellite spot each chip has double the monetary value.

Doing a double buy-in depends almost entirely on tallent IMO.

[woohoo88]

Small derailment question: I will very seldom take shots at the $3r and treat it like a freezeout. I do this because my bankroll could not handle playing it like a rebuy and I figure the huge overlay makes it worthwhile.

Is this bad?

[KingDan]

I think the immediate rebuy has slightly lower ev than the initial buyin.

However if you are a winning player, it prolly has a higher ev than not rebuying.

Put another way,I'm thinking the ROI of the initial buyin will be higher than the rebuys. However I'd rather have an ROI of 80% for $10 than 100% for $5.

Sorry if this unclear, tail end of a long session.

[beenben]

It's more important to rebuy in a satelite b/c you need to get one of the 6% spots. If you don't rebuy right away, and you double, you only double to 3k instead of to 6k. and then if you double again, you're at 6k instead of 12k. You need a really big stack so that people are scared of your raises and so you can wait around and let smaller stacks go busto. I don't think you need to have the biggest stack at the end of the rebuy - I think 3x-4x the buyin is enough (that is, 1500 chips, I want 8k-12k by the break, but I'm not going to risk it all on a flip to to get to 24k b/c if you miss, you've got 5k and you've got a small chance of winning).

[JustPlayingSmart]

In a turbo rebuy on stars (like the huge field 11r's to the 215s that happen on Sunday mornings), I always initial rebuy and take the addon. I also play ridiculously tight in the rebuy period of these, since putting in $100 for a tournament with a max prize of $215 is not a good idea, so often I break even or lose a few chips by the end of the rebuy period.

If that happens, my stack is 1k + 1k + 1500 = 3500. In these 30k is gonna be par when everyone has a seat, which means you need to get to 20k at some point so you can start planning your endgame. If you have 3500, it means you need at least a double double, and you still need to find some good steal spots, and then you may even need a 3rd double at endgame.

If you didn't rebuy initially and addon, you have 1k, which means you would need double double double double just to get to the same spot as if you had spent the extra $20. In theory, you're spending 1/3 as much, but assuming you can get your money in on average as 60/40, you're only gonna get to the same spot 36% as often, which is barely more than the 33% needed to make your ROI the same. Also, you will have 0 FE with a 1000 stack, whereas with 3500 you have FE even when blinds are 300/600/a50.

People who do not rebuy or addon might be able to eke out a higher ROI (I'm not convinced of this), but you will be making a lot smaller hourly, and your profit/tournament will be smaller.

One more thing: if you play no hands till the last level of rebuy period, you are gonna have 500 chips if you don't rebuy or 1500 if you do. With 500, if it's folded to you on button or SB, you can't steal, you are just playing a pot. But with 1500, you can steal and nab 300 chips a lot, which will make a huge difference later.

[SteveOB]

In limit you want to rebuy..its a free double up and your only chance to get it..If your in it to win it you want every chip available to you.

[kindling]

I wanted to bump this because I've been thinking about it lately with the WSOP sats.

I've been playing the Turbo $2R which awards a seat to the $33R. I'm just trying to build up a W$ bankroll to take a few shots at a seat. The $2R is paying about 20% of the field, so I feel the variance should be low, since it's easier to cash when 5-7 tables are paid out.

However, I'm worried that I'm rebuying too much. My lowest has been 4 buyins (2 rebuys + 1 AO), and my worst has been 8! Strangely (or maybe obviously), I failed to cash when I rebought the most, and cashed each time when I had only 4-6 buyins, except for the 1st one I played. I'm over 50% ITM, and over 50% ROI. Very small sample size, obv, since these have only been running a week. But I wanted to do a sanity check on my rebuy strategy before I go through too many of these.

These things take about 1.5 hours, and the rebuy period lasts for 30 minutes. I've been starting with the strategy that I should always Add On, and do a double Rebuy every time I bust. My goal is only to get to about 4000-6000 by the end of the rebuy, then add on for 1500 more. I play tighter if I get an above average chip count, and am willing to gamble if I'm still below 2500 or so. I don't think I'm maniacing, but I don't mind taking a coin flip, or getting involved in a multi-way pot with good odds to 3x up.

Post-Rebuy, I've found that the field is weak enough that I can usually keep afloat with a few steals against the right villains, and catch a double up. If I can get to what will be the average stack at the end of the tourney, I get real tight, and only play premium hands against small stacks who can't hurt me. Or against other big stacks who can't afford to call.

I'm getting comfortable with my post-Rebuy play, and am beginning to wonder if I'd be better off keeping my costs down during the Rebuy period (only 30 minutes), and planning to start with just under 3500 post-rebuy. I've noticed that many people don't rebuy or addon, and the average is usually only about 4000-4500, anyway. It moves up quickly after that, after the antes kick in, the blinds ramp up, and the shorties start to bust.

Any obvious adjustments to my approach to these low-buyin sats?

Note that the end-game of these is interesting, since with 5 minute blinds, and the stalling, you may only see 2-3 hands per level. At the end, the blinds get to about 4k/8k, and the average stack is 2BB. You're just hoping to survive 1 orbit (which would take 20 minutes) and cash.

Thanks,
Kindling

[kindling]

bump to see if the afternoon crowd has any input on the above question.

[loosemmjan]

This is a good read on rebuys....

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/c...risch0307.html