This is how bad I am capable of playing

[Josh W]

The games aren't good, they're GRRRREEEAAAAAAT. 25-50 live. Very loose passive game.

6 or 7 limpers (I can't remember if anybody folded), and I'm in the SB with two black aces. I raise. BB, most competent opponent, calls, as do all others.

Flop comes JT7, two clubs. I check, hoping to checkraise a late bettor and slim up the field. BB bets, and all call to me. BB is passive in spots like this, a good friend of mine, and I can say with 100% certainty that he can beat KJ here. He MAY bet AJ, but I doubt it. He'd threebet AA or KK preflop, but maybe not QQ.

So, all call BB's bet (or at least 5 do). I just call, since I feel I am beat, but am getting like 24:1 closing the action with a backdoor flush, overpair, etc.

Turn is 4s, putting to spades and two clubs on the board. I have black aces, so if I spike a set, it won't complete a flush (though it will allow KQ to beat me).

I check, BB bets, about 3 calls, and it's on me. There is reason to believe that I'd have 54 specifically. I call, people turn and look at me with the "what does he have?", and so I say "put the 4 of diamonds out there!".

River is the 4d, giving me two pair, and counterfeiting any two pair that could have been flopped.

I fire out with confidence. BB raises, all fold, and I call.

Comments on all streets?

Josh

[AffleckKGB]

Please raise the flop.

P.S. I don't believe anyone looked at you with the "what does he have?".

[BradL]

This hand is almost as stupid as 3betting your utg raise on the button with A4s.

-Brad

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is almost as stupid as 3betting your utg raise on the button with A4s.

-Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Given my usual range, that's not bad. However, if you did that in a time pot....wow, that'd be DUMB.

Sorry Mods for putting this here instead of midstakes...can somebody move it?

So, I agree that this hand is dumb, but if you are willing to accept the fact that I'm beat on the flop over 85% of the time, what do you do differently?

Josh

[Entity]

Given how you got there, I'm sure that check-calling the river is fine. He'll still bet JTs, T7s, J7s on the river, given how little strength you/the rest of the field has shown.

On the flop I question the idea of going for a late-position checkraise without a specific read on who the likely bettor will be; the problem is compounded by the fact that the pot is already 14SB, so a checkraise isn't really diminishing anyone's odds on this flop very much (offering at the very worst 17:2 you won't fold anything with 4 outs or more).

I'm also not sure why you believe that BB has to have better than AJ here (could he have K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], pair+draw hands like J9s, etc., here?).

Given how specific your read was, I'd probably bet the flop but if I somehow took your flop/turn line I'd check-call the river. I'd also probably checkraise anyone other than the BB who bet (this depends on if overcalls seem more likely based on physical tells, positions, who is left in the hand, etc).

Rob

[mike l.]

youre a better player than that river call. please dont make those sorts of awful crying calls, theyre depressing.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
youre a better player than that river call. please dont make those sorts of awful crying calls, theyre depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree. river is c/c

James

[stinkypete]

yeah that river bet makes no sense to me. it's not like he's not valuebetting AJ or JT or any of the hands you put him on on the flop.

[stinkypete]

and if you think you're ahead now, why not checkraises? no worse hand is 3-betting you after you called for a 4.

[andyfox]

"I check, hoping to checkraise a late bettor and slim up the field."

I want to address this specific point. With a question: What kind of flop, in a limpfest game, are likely to produce an early position bet and what kind is more likely to produce a late position bet?

Usually, one would think the earlier limpers are more likely to have higher cards. Also, a draw-rich flop is more likely to scare top or middle pair from betting up front and thus more likely to produce a bet from later position players. And, in any event, the location of the most aggressive postflop player(s) might be the most important factor of all.

Thoughts?

BTW, I played the Hollywood Park 25-50 last week; it was perhaps the best game I've ever been in. And I play Commerce regularly.

I took those suckers for $38.