Pot odds for Ax and Kx suited preflop?

[omega21]

What pot odds approx do I need to make Ax and Kx profitable? I think I get a little too loose with these preflop....can't find anything in SSHE or HFAP

thanks
J

[HoneyBadger]

It's about 7:1 to flop a flushdraw. So with implied odds probaly something like 5:1 at least.

[Caporegime]

11% to flop a draw, 4% to make a flush starting suited. Ax is the most overrated hand imo, unless you play in very loose passive games with many limpers every hand.

[CardSharkGames]

[ QUOTE ]
What pot odds approx do I need to make Ax and Kx profitable? I think I get a little too loose with these preflop....can't find anything in SSHE or HFAP

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a 1-million deal simulation print-out from the web that shows that against 3, 6 and 9 *random* hands, A2-suited to A-9 suited will win roughly 30%, 20%, and 14% of the time, respectively. Kx-suited is a couple of percentage points worse across the board.

The results are more meaningful for 9 callers where people are actually calling with any random hands. With only 3 callers, you will usually be up against better than random hands, so the 30% (above) will not hold up.

In my own simulations, A2-A9-suited do very poorly, so I will only play them in loose-passive games, unraised, in late position.

[James.]

if the games loosepassive you can open limp them from EP. in the more common aggressive games, if i have one limper i will overlimp most of the time unless the limper is the type to limp AJ etc. inwhich case i will prefer a bit more overlay. it is also directly correllated to how aggressive the players left to act are preflop. if i'm paying two sb to see the flop i'll fold or sometimes raise based on the solidity/ability to fold(a hand like AT or AJ)of the pf aggressors left to act.

[BostonMetro]

My rule is that I want to expect 5 players to see the flop if I want to limp these in non-blinded seats. In the blinds I'll usually call getting 5-1 with Axs and 7-1 with Kxs. I don't even want to talk about Axo and Kxo (x < 8). They shouldn't even enter your mind as far as seeing a flop...

[HoneyBadger]

Woh there, A8s is a raising hand first in middle pos.

[BostonMetro]

I'm looking hard in my post for where I said it wasn't. I never limp a hand in MP on except the occasional JTs, QJs in soft games. I said I wouldn't play A8o... though I would raise it in the CO 70% of the time and button 90% of the time if I'm the first in. I thought the OP referred to spots in late position and blinds where you have previous callers and you're figuring out whether it's correct to overlimp Ax, Kx.

[HoneyBadger]

oh, I misread. The thread was about suited aces, so I assumed you meant A8s. Nevermind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]