Can I move up to $10/180 yet?

[Deadnutz]

I've been mostly a SNG player for 3 years and started
playing in the $4/180 with some cashes but no big scores.
I came to this forum to help me make the neccessary
adjustments for the larger fields. I've been reading posts
for about 3 weeks now and my play is showing great
improvement.

In my last 32 tourneys, I have 8 FTs, including 2 firsts and 2 thirds. So my bankroll is around $600. Now obviously I've run pretty well during this stretch, but I also feel as though I've played very well, applying several of the key concepts discussed here.

So my questions are, 1) Are the $10/180s of similar skill level to the $4/180s? 2) Is $600 large enough to outlast the variance in that game? Thanks in advance.

[seke2]

1) Pretty much
2) Probably, but your sample size is way too small to say for sure. Move up, if it goes horribly, move back down.

[[Phill]]

No. You dont have my permission to move up.

The 4/180s are only slightly worse than the 10/180s, and its so close its barely noticable.
Id play them on that roll, but a bad stretch to start will easily kill that roll, so be prepared to move down.

[HappyOD]

Alot of the advice here says to have about 100 times the tournament buy-in. I've been following that advice for some time, and find it to be very comfortable. For myself, the idea behind proper bankroll sizing is to be able to play my chosen buy-in, and not have to move down if I have a negative swing. It makes sense, because I want to be at the same higher buy-in level when the varience goes the other way.

[[Phill]]

Happy,

With 60 buyins your roll can handle most of the normal swings.

I mean, a full proper roll at the 4/180s is $400 (tho maybe slightly less because your ROI will be higher) so if you drop 20 buy ins your basicly rolled enough to move down.

Besides which, when you drop 20 buy ins most will be second guessing if they can beat that level anyway so they will take time to regroup.

[Deadnutz]

All good advice. I think I would definitely feel more
comfortable with 100 buy-ins, but I think 60-80 is decent.
Maybe I do a 50/50 split between playing the $4 and $10's?
That way if I run bad and get down to $300 I can drop down
or if it goes well and I get up to $900 I can move up comfortably at 90 buy-ins. If the level of play isn't
that much better in the $10's, I definitely feel ok playing
half of my tourneys there.

[[Phill]]

Yeah, mixing in a few 10s with your 4s is definately a good start.

[Jeff76]

I pretty much stick to the 100 buy in rule except for a few small "shots" here and there (like playing a $15, 80 person buy in when my roll was at 1K). The 180s are comparitivly low in the variance department, so I actually think you can get away with less, but I'm never comfortable so I don't do it. If you can feel comfortable droping a couple $10 buy ins in a row, you are probably fine.

When I moved up to the 10s fromt the 4s I went from 3 tabling 4s to tabling 1 10 and 2 4s. This worked out very well for me. I am probably soon going to shoot for that same strategy with the 20s as I'm almost rolled for them.

[HappyOD]

I agree. I use the average of my buy-ins to determine bankroll. So if you play 50% 4s and 10s, your average is 7, and your bankroll of $600 represents 85 buy-ins. I deduct 10% for fees, so your actual multiple here is 76.

I just think it's critical to have a bank roll that allows for negative swings without dropping down. If you lose 20% of your bankroll (as an example), and drop down to tournaments that have 1/2 the payout structure, you then have to win/place in twice the number of tournaments to get back to even. It's too deep a hole.

I understand Phill's point, and appreciate the input. I haven't experienced a 30% downswing since I've been bankrolled at 100 times, so maybe my confidence would be shaky, and I'd have to move down. However, I have had 20% swings, and recognized them for what they were, variance. Generally speaking, I think players who have the discipline to work up to 100 buy-ins are going to have the experience to do well at the next level. At least they'll have the bankroll to give themselves time to absorb the differences and adjust to them.

For me, a good bankroll philosophy is: Tight is Right.